Supplemental Taillight

[5246MPD4now]

So the question was brought up about the taillight in the center of the back window of a vehicle. Is it required to be lit? I didn't see anything in the Taillamps section.

Taillamps

24600. During darkness every motor vehicle which is not in combination with any other vehicle and every vehicle at the end of a combination of vehicles shall be equipped with lighted taillamps mounted on the rear as follows:
(a) Every vehicle shall be equipped with one or more taillamps.
(b) Every vehicle, other than a motorcycle, manufactured and first registered on or after January 1, 1958, shall be equipped with not less than two taillamps, except that trailers and semitrailers manufactured after July 23, 1973, which are less than 30 inches wide, may be equipped with one taillamp which shall be mounted at or near the vertical centerline of the vehicles. If a vehicle is equipped with two taillamps, they shall be mounted as specified in subdivision (d).
(c) Every vehicle or vehicle at the end of a combination of vehicles, subject to subdivision (a) of Section 22406 shall be equipped with not less than two taillamps.
(d) When two taillamps are required, at least one shall be mounted at the left and one at the right side respectively at the same level.
(e) Taillamps shall be red in color and shall be plainly visible from all distances within 500 feet to the rear except that taillamps on vehicles manufactured after January 1, 1969, shall be plainly visible from all distances within 1,000 feet to the rear.
(f) Taillamps on vehicles manufactured on or after January 1, 1969, shall be mounted not lower than 15 inches nor higher than 72 inches, except that a tow truck, in addition to being equipped with the required taillamps, may also be equipped with two taillamps which may be mounted not lower than 15 inches nor higher than the maximum allowable vehicle height and as far forward as the rearmost portion of the driver's seat in the rearmost position. The additional taillamps on a tow truck shall be lighted whenever the headlamps are lighted.

Amended Ch. 924, Stats. 1988. Effective January 1, 1989.


The only other section I saw close to it was 24603 (G) but it doesn't say it has to be lit.

Stoplamps

24603. Every motor vehicle ( )1 that is not in combination with any other vehicle and every vehicle at the end of a combination of vehicles shall at all times be equipped with stoplamps mounted on the rear as follows:

(g) Any vehicle may be equipped with supplemental stoplamps mounted to the rear of the rearmost portion of the driver's seat in its rearmost position in addition to the lamps required to be mounted on the rear of the vehicle. Supplemental stoplamps installed after January 1, 1979, shall be red in color and mounted not lower than 15 inches above the roadway. The supplemental stoplamp on that side of a vehicle toward which a turn will be made may flash as part of the supplemental turn signal lamp.

A supplemental stoplamp may be mounted inside the rear window of a vehicle, if it is mounted at the centerline of the vehicle and is constructed and mounted so as to prevent any light, other than a monitorial indicator emitted from the device, either direct or reflected, from being visible to the driver.

Any thoughts if there's another section? Thanks in advance.

[PapaBear]

The question is debatable, depending on which agency or group you ask. The law is specific in section 24252 (a) CVC. If it is REQUIRED, it must be maintained. Generally, if it comes installed by the factory, it must be maintained; if it is after market add-on, the reqirement does not fit because it is an owner optioned add-on.

I would certainly caution a driver/owner to maintain the lamp if it is properly displayed and installed. It is worthy of a fix-it notice with no court appearance (CHP 281) or a verbal.


Lighting Equipment Requirements

24252. (a) All lighting equipment of a required type installed on a vehicle shall at all times be maintained in good working order. Lamps shall be equipped with bulbs of the correct voltage rating corresponding to the nominal voltage at the lamp socket.

(b) The voltage at any tail, stop, license plate, side marker or clearance lamp socket on a vehicle shall not be less than 85 percent of the design voltage of the bulb. Voltage tests shall be conducted with the engine operating.

(c) Two or more lamp or reflector functions may be combined, provided each function subject to requirements established by the department meets such requirements.

(1) No turn signal lamp may be combined optically with a stoplamp unless the stoplamp is extinguished when the turn signal is flashing.

(2) No clearance lamp may be combined optically with any taillamp or identification lamp.

Amended Ch. 723, Stats. 1979. Effective January 1, 1980.

Stoplamps

24603. Every motor vehicle ( )1 that is not in combination with any other vehicle and every vehicle at the end of a combination of vehicles shall at all times be equipped with stoplamps mounted on the rear as follows:

(a) Every such vehicle shall be equipped with one or more stoplamps.

(b) Every such vehicle, other than a motorcycle, manufactured and first registered on or after January 1, 1958, shall be equipped with two stoplamps, except that trailers and semitrailers manufactured after July 23, 1973, which are less than 30 inches wide, may be equipped with one stoplamp which shall be mounted at or near the vertical centerline of the trailer. If such vehicle is equipped with two stoplamps, they shall be mounted as specified in subdivision (d).

(c) Except as provided in subdivision (h), stoplamps on vehicles manufactured on or after January 1, 1969, shall be mounted not lower than 15 inches nor higher than 72 inches, except that a tow truck or a repossessor’s tow ( )2 vehicle, in addition to being equipped with the required stoplamps, may also be equipped with two stoplamps which may be mounted not lower than 15 inches nor higher than the maximum allowable vehicle height and as far forward as the rearmost portion of the driver’s seat in the rearmost position.

(d) Where two stoplamps are required, at least one shall be mounted at the left and one at the right side, respectively, at the same level.

(e) Stoplamps on vehicles manufactured on or after January 1, 1979, shall emit a red light. Stoplamps on vehicles manufactured before January 1, 1979, shall emit a red or yellow light. All stoplamps shall be plainly visible and understandable from a distance of 300 feet to the rear both during normal sunlight and at nighttime, except that stoplamps on a vehicle of a size required to be equipped with clearance lamps shall be visible from a distance of 500 feet during ( )3 those times.

(f) Stoplamps shall be activated upon application of the service (foot) brake and the hand control head for air, vacuum, or electric brakes. In addition, all stoplamps may be activated by a mechanical device designed to function only upon sudden release of the accelerator while the vehicle is in motion. Stoplamps on vehicles equipped with a manual transmission may be manually activated by a mechanical device when the vehicle is downshifted if the device is automatically rendered inoperative while the vehicle is accelerating.

(g) Any vehicle may be equipped with supplemental stoplamps mounted to the rear of the rearmost portion of the driver's seat in its rearmost position in addition to the lamps required to be mounted on the rear of the vehicle. Supplemental stoplamps installed after January 1, 1979, shall be red in color and mounted not lower than 15 inches above the roadway. The supplemental stoplamp on that side of a vehicle toward which a turn will be made may flash as part of the supplemental turn signal lamp.

A supplemental stoplamp may be mounted inside the rear window of a vehicle, if it is mounted at the centerline of the vehicle and is constructed and mounted so as to prevent any light, other than a monitorial indicator emitted from the device, either direct or reflected, from being visible to the driver.

(h) Any supplemental stoplamp installed after January 1, 1987, shall comply with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108 (49 C.F.R. 571.108). Any vehicle equipped with a stoplamp ( )1 that complies with the federal motor vehicle safety standards applicable to that make and model vehicle shall conform to that applicable safety standard unless modified to comply with the federal motor vehicle safety standard designated in this subdivision.

Amended Sec. 108, Ch. 307, Stats. 2009. Effective January 1, 2010.
The 2009 amendment added the italicized material, and at the point(s) indicated, deleted the following:
1. “which”
2. “truck”
3. “such”

[Bradley]

Had you not have posted, Papa, my question would have been something along the lines of "FMVSS says you need it ..... so I'm sure theres a state law referencing the SS?"

But you answered my question/statement before I even posted! :biggrin:

[TylerC]

My brother received a cite for this a week or so ago. Not sure on the agency, I'll have to check. It was the local PD.

[_J_]

I always write 24252(a)VC based off of 24603VC and the year of the vehicle usually only write it if they only have one light left out of the 3.

[Ex-PVI (Was A2717)]

The FMVSS does not require a "taillight" (taillamp) in the rear window.
It does require a supplemental stoplamp (AKA: CHMSL, for Center High Mounted Stop Lamp), which does not need to be in the rear window.

[_J_]

The FMVSS does not require a "taillight" (taillamp) in the rear window.
It does require a supplemental stoplamp (AKA: CHMSL, for Center High Mounted Stop Lamp), which does not need to be in the rear window.

What is FMVSS? I think the words "tail light" were being used loosly, such as we say "wheel" but really its a tire and rim. Plus, to get technical, a tail light could include the reverse lights, the license plate lights, or even a blinker. :wink: Its on the "tail" of the car and its a "light".

My interperation is: Vehicles made after 01/79 require 3 brake lights, one being center mounted in between the two outer most lights, and mounted at the appropriate height and distance apart.

[Bradley]

What is FMVSS?

Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard.

[_J_]

:shock: Ooooohhhh. Not Ford Motor Vehicle Safety & Security? :biggrin:

[Ex-PVI (Was A2717)]

"What is FMVSS?"
See 24603(h), in the second post.

"... to get technical, a tail light could include the reverse lights, the license plate lights, or even a blinker. Its on the "tail" of the car and its a "light"."

Using your logic, a golf driver lying on the rear seat would make it the driver's seat.
To get technical, a tail lamp serves one purpose. You are collectively describing the lamps on the rear of the vehicle ("rear lights").
Calling anything else a taillight is not common usage in the automotive industry or the regulatory arena in California.
I base this on 45 years in the automotive industry, wrenching & teaching, plus just retired after 38 years in the regulatory arena, first as a CHP civilian passenger vehicle inspector, & the remainder at BAR maintaining the publications for official Brake & Lamp Adjusting stations, and developing the licensing examinations for Licensed Adjusters.
However, I don't know everything, and am open to further discussion.

[5246MPD4now]

Lighting Equipment Requirements

24252. (a) All lighting equipment of a required type installed on a vehicle shall at all times be maintained in good working order. Lamps shall be equipped with bulbs of the correct voltage rating corresponding to the nominal voltage at the lamp socket.


Thank you. That makes sense. I didn't think to check this type of section. I thought it would've been right in the taillamps section.

Thanks for the responses!

[cjincognito]

CHMSL's are STOP LIGHTS not TAIL LIGHTS! Furthermore, they are required per the CFR if the vehicle is manufactured after 9/1/85 and therefore 24252 does apply to them. This seems so cut and dry I don't know why this thread is still going on. (hehe I was so wrong in my thoughts when I originally posted this. :redface:)

Now, if an off duty were to drive through Auburn with a burned out CHMSL, and were to be given a ticket.. THAT would be CS! :razz:

[cjincognito]

BTW, PapaBear, the 49 CFR 571.108 that you posted about contains an interesting tidbit...motorcycle turn signals shall be no less than 3-1/2 square inches. All of those fancy crotch rockets that people take the factory tail-light/license plate assembly off and put in those wazoo LED bulbs that are barely 1 square inch can be cited for that as well! :razz: Other than that though, the CFR is a dull read.

[TheForceCHP]

BTW, PapaBear, the 49 CFR 571.108 that you posted about contains an interesting tidbit...motorcycle turn signals shall be no less than 3-1/2 square inches. All of those fancy crotch rockets that people take the factory tail-light/license plate assembly off and put in those wazoo LED bulbs that are barely 1 square inch can be cited for that as well! :razz: Other than that though, the CFR is a dull read.


and they also need to be 9 inches apart :biggrin:

[Vinnie]

BTW, PapaBear, the 49 CFR 571.108 that you posted about contains an interesting tidbit...motorcycle turn signals shall be no less than 3-1/2 square inches. All of those fancy crotch rockets that people take the factory tail-light/license plate assembly off and put in those wazoo LED bulbs that are barely 1 square inch can be cited for that as well! :razz: Other than that though, the CFR is a dull read.

Seems to me there's a certain Victory rider who might say he doesn't care about this one...

[cjincognito]

Seems to me there's a certain Victory rider who might say he doesn't care about this one...

I was going to bring that up when I saw him next :lol:

[_J_]

Using your logic, a golf driver lying on the rear seat would make it the driver's seat.
To get technical, a tail lamp serves one purpose. You are collectively describing the lamps on the rear of the vehicle ("rear lights").
Calling anything else a taillight is not common usage in the automotive industry or the regulatory arena in California.
I base this on 45 years in the automotive industry, wrenching & teaching, plus just retired after 38 years in the regulatory arena, first as a CHP civilian passenger vehicle inspector, & the remainder at BAR maintaining the publications for official Brake & Lamp Adjusting stations, and developing the licensing examinations for Licensed Adjusters.
However, I don't know everything, and am open to further discussion.

My "logic" has nothing to do with it. You called out the original poster because he said "taillight" and I was just pointing out that the original poster was probably using the term "taillight" losely.

There is no need to start a pissing contest of skills/qualifications for a stupid "taillight" thread...:noidea: I'm just a poor ole shade tree mechanic that has heard the motoring public call brake lights all sorts of different things that weren't what they were really called.

CHMSL's are STOP LIGHTS not TAIL LIGHTS!

Again with the abbreviations, lol. Center H? Mounted Stop Lamps :noidea:

You are collectively describing the lamps on the rear of the vehicle ("rear lights").

Ok...so are they lamps or lights? :hitwall: :biggrin:

[cjincognito]

Again with the abbreviations, lol. Center H? Mounted Stop Lamps :noidea:

Center High Mounted Stop Lights( or Lamps if you prefer)

[Ex-PVI (Was A2717)]

"My "logic" has nothing to do with it. You called out the original poster because he said "taillight" and I was just pointing out that the original poster was probably using the term "taillight" losely."

"There is no need to start a pissing contest of skills/qualifications for a stupid "taillight" thread... I'm just a poor ole shade tree mechanic that has heard the motoring public call brake lights all sorts of different things that weren't what they were really called."
=========

This is a Legal/ Enforcement thread, where often there is extreme attention paid to details of specific sections of law. I was trying to make the point that the generalization would not fly in court, or even when writing a repair order. Neither arena is affected by what the motoring public calls something.

No p*****g contest intended. I also marvel at the public's understanding and assumptions.
One of my favorites was telling a motorist that the vehicle had an exhaust leak. The response was: "I wondered what that puddle in the driveway was."

[Triple Nickel]

One of my favorites was telling a motorist that the vehicle had an exhaust leak. The response was: "I wondered what that puddle in the driveway was."

That is awesome:lol: