Open Carry

[rmafera]

Howdy All!

I'm from San Diego and recently I've been doing a lot of research on Unloaded Open Carry of a firearm by civilians.

I was just wondering what your opinions were on open carry. Do you support it or not and why? How do you personally handle a situation with an open carrier? From my point of view, when I carry, I obviously know that I'm not a threat to anyone, but I also acknowledge that law enforcement has no way of possibly knowing that.

I'm obviously not looking for departmental policy as it is a legal act (w/ certain exceptions), I'm just interested in the opinions of law enforcement officers seeing as I want to be one and will be applying to the CHP this year.

Cheers!

[dw]

My opinion is that walking into Vons with a clearly visible, unloaded firearm strapped to your side is a poor idea.

[PapaBear]

Open carry is lawful in CA.

Now, my question is this: Why do you want to carry an unloaded weapon in public, just because you can? It is foolish to say the least. You are not proving anything. You are not a better person because you have a weapon on your hip. You may walk into the wrong area and become the subject of unworthy individuals who feel they deserve the weapon more than you. It is kind of like driving a Mini Cooper in a NASCAR race. It can be done, but nothing good will come of it!

If you feel the great need to carry a weapon, do it with a CCW permit and carry one that will respond in a positive manner if you need it; or, become a LEO and do some good in the community.

Final note: all of the street savy homies know that when they see someone in an open carry situation that the weapon is unloaded, so displaying it in that manner is not a deterrent to criminal activity.

Now, I shall sit back and enjoy the show........ :popcorn:

[SayjackB]

Hey, its your right to bare arms... Granted, certain dividuals (them's the sheep) still think its the right to "Bear Arms." i think to myself "Bear Arms? Who needs Bear Arms?"

Any who. i don't think enough of the public (and sadly LEO's) are aware of the fact that this is legal. It goes along with yelling fire in a crowded place. and frankly, it wouldn't take long for so hapless idiot to make a "furtive movement" toward said side arm when a LEO requested to inspect it and that never ends well for you.

Do i think the world would be a much safer place if more people carried firearms? DEFINITELY but until that day, it's best for you to keep you gun in your pants.... or where ever else you want to hide it.

[FlyByWire]

If you feel the great need to carry a weapon, do it with a CCW permit and carry one that will respond in a positive manner if you need it..



Living in a state with a total opposite view on firearms than California, this is great advice.

AZ is VERY firearms friendly, and one can openly carry loaded almost everywhere in the state (private businesses may ask you to leave, or post signs, which is their choice of course). We're also a 'shall issue' CCW state. I have openly carried many times, before I got into L.E., and I wont do it again. It doesnt attract too much attention (HERE... in CA I could see it being different), but I really don't want anyone knowing I'm carrying.

I carry for the protection of my family and myself (mostly because of what I do for a living).. so I understand the reason for wanting to carry, and I support it... but I can't grasp the thought process of openly carrying an UNloaded firearm. IIRC, you are able to carry a loaded magazine on your other hip (?), but I wonder the legal ramifications of loading, and using your firearm should the need arise.

I understand WHY people are doing it (It's our RIGHT.. Im a 2A supporter myself), and I get that, but simply from a tactical perspective.. it'll probably bite you in the ass more than it helps.. which is unfortunate, but I don't see it changing soon (in CA anyway) :confused:

[Bradley]

I think open carry is a terrible idea for a civilian.

Thinking from the criminals point of view - their objective is to, say, rob the market that you're shopping at. To complete their objective, the criminal is going to figure out what stands in his(her) way. Its doubtful that the criminal knows (or cares) that your weapon is unloaded - and someone with a firearm stands in the way of their objection.

You now have the criminals negative attention, and you in the way of their objection.

Now - can you deploy, load, rack, aim you're weapon in time to protect yourself? :noidea:

[bcjack]

Why would you want to carry an UNLOADED gun openly displayed???? What are you going to do with an UNLOADED gun when the s*** hits the fan??? Use the UNLOADED gun as a club??? Makes absolutely ZERO sense to me...:hitwall:

Best case...nothing happens to you. Next best case...A criminal kicks your a** and takes your gun from you...Worst case...A criminal believes your gun is loaded, and shoots you...

[Mac]

While I'm a staunch Second Amendment supporter, I think "open carry" in a state like CA is a bad idea...carrying an unloaded gun is like going to play baseball with a wiffle bat - what you have looks like the right gear, but it's not going to get the job done when you need it. I agree with FlyByWire that it's a poor choice from a tactical standpoint.

Open carry in "Free America" (e.g., states like AZ that don't have the ridiculous, onerous, prohibitive firearm laws that the People's Republik of Kalifornia does) is another matter entirely. I (personally) condone it, and do not fear law-abiding citizens who choose to arm themselves. I think it (as well as more liberal 'concealed-carry' laws) serves as a deterrent to criminals and allows one to protect themselves and their loved ones.

There. That's about the only place you'll ever see me use the word 'liberal' in a positive manner. :razz:

As far as how I'd handle an open carry situation - that gets into tactics, which we don't publicly discuss here.

[AaeJae]

No point in doing it. I understand that you may intimidate those around you, but you're not accomplishing anything. I don't know, I think people who do that want to "look cool". I may be wrong, but that's my opinion.

[x MAIT]

You've got to be kidding.

[HonkingAntelope]

If you feel the great need to carry a weapon, do it with a CCW permit and carry one that will respond in a positive manner if you need it; or, become a LEO and do some good in the community.

Um, unless you live out in the boonies, it's virtually impossible to get a CCW in CA unless you're connected politically or happen to be retired from law enforcement.

The open carry crowd has been pretty active here in Bay Area, but I fear their antics will only give more ammunition to the anti-self-defense lobby to do even more damage to people's right than they already have.

[David]

I'm not an expert or a cop, but open carry doesn't seem like a very good idea in California, IMHO.

If you feel the great need to carry a weapon, do it with a CCW permit While that would be ideal, he may not be able to get a permit. This is California, not a shall-issue state like Arizona.

IIRC, in California the issuing authority is the county sheriff, and I have no idea how Sheriff William Gore feels about concealed carry. :noidea:

[bcjack]

I'm not an expert or a cop, but open carry doesn't seem like a very good idea in California, IMHO.

While that would be ideal, he may not be able to get a permit. This is California, not a shall-issue state like Arizona.

IIRC, in California the issuing authority is the county sheriff, and I have no idea how Sheriff William Gore feels about concealed carry. :noidea:

Local Police Chief in a City and County Sheriff in unincorporated areas.

[Mac]

Local Police Chief in a City and County Sheriff in unincorporated areas.
Either way, David and Honking Antelope are right - it's very, very difficult for a civilian to get a CCW permit in CA, unlike "shall-issue" states.

IMO, California's current CCW laws victimize law-abiding citizens while doing absolutely nothing to deter criminals from carrying armed. Criminals know they're criminals, are good with that, and don't give a rip about the law anyway, so they don't care that packing their piece is illegal (they're using them to commit other illegal acts anyway!). In the meantime, the vast majority of those who choose to remain law-abiding are left unable to (legally) defend themselves against the armed predators.

I remember reading an article in one of the LE-related journals a few years back in which they interviewed an imprisoned armed robber. He admitted that capering in "shall-issue" states made made his "job" harder and more dangerous, not knowing who around him was armed and who wasn't. He said that he preferred to do his crimes in states with stricter firearms laws because he could be more sure that his potential victims (and possible witnesses/bystanders) wouldn't be armed. Easy pickins.

[Bradley]

Its refreshing to see law enforcement (however small a sample this thread is...) having positive views on civilian CCW.

[Jeff Rhea]

"I (name) promise to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic and bare true faith and allegiance to the same."

"...the Peoples' right to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed."

Seems pretty simple to me...

[AyatollahGondola]

I am a member of an open carry group, and I support them, but I don't like doing it. I am not afraid one way or the other, and open carry is not about self defense for me. I don't even believe the 2nd amend. is about self defense of ones' person. I have open carried, but with my rifle or shotgun, and did so while walking several miles to the range. Also had a scabbard strapped to me bicycle with it inside and went the same route. I see the inherent problems with doing it, but also see what happens because we don't. Man with a gun calls are stigmatizing lawful possession, and we should not have come to this point. I see open carry as a necessary evil, much like guns themselves. As a kid I used to walk to the pheasant hunting areas with my shotgun, and it never raised an eyebrow....even when we stopped at the store for something. Try that these days and you could get stigmatized to death. In the minimum, you can see lots of guns, none of which are unloaded. But in the end, I want my freedoms back. I'll open carry again, and I hope more people do. I also accept that there are many, many people that shouldn't open carry, and for that matter, shouldn't even have a gun. Freedom is double edge sword. We're stuck with the good and the bad...or the stupid as is usually referred to in this case. Taking away all guns and the stupid people will still be here, so I'll pass on that plan.

[AyatollahGondola]

"I (name) promise to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic and bare true faith and allegiance to the same."

"...the Peoples' right to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed."

Seems pretty simple to me...
But it's not. That's the bad news. There are many constitutional rights that are not meant to be interpreted by us uneducated peasants I guess. Jury trials for instance. That one has been watered down way past its' plain language. Apparently we cannot comprehend it's true intent by a merely following it to the letter.

[Mac]

Its refreshing to see law enforcement (however small a sample this thread is...) having positive views on civilian CCW.
I can't speak for everyone, of course - but I think more LE people may support it than you realize. Cops generally don't favor "gun grabber" politicians, nor their legislation...we don't need more legislation about guns, we just need the judicial system to vigorously prosecute the ones that are already on the books, as they pertain to firearms being used for criminal purposes. Guns aren't inherently evil - they're evil when used by evil people for evil purposes. I personally find nothing wrong and nothing to fear in a law-abiding citizen carrying a firearm (concealed or openly)...I visit Arizona often and walk amongst them there with nary a second thought other than that it's good to see "Free Americans" exercising that right.

"I (name) promise to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic and bare true faith and allegiance to the same."

"...the Peoples' right to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed."
Not to be pedantic here, but I think we're talking about the "right to bear arms". :razz: While I support your version also, that's more of a Larry the Cable Guy thing - kinda like this:

http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/l/larry-the-cable-guy/album-the-right-to-bare-arms.jpg
(http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/l/larry-the-cable-guy/album-the-right-to-bare-arms.jpg)

[CAHPDist2X]

Why would you want to carry an UNLOADED gun openly displayed???? What are you going to do with an UNLOADED gun when the s*** hits the fan??? Use the UNLOADED gun as a club??? Makes absolutely ZERO sense to me...:hitwall:

Best case...nothing happens to you. Next best case...A criminal kicks your a** and takes your gun from you...Worst case...A criminal believes your gun is loaded, and shoots you...

No WORSE worst case is I respond to the call and shoot the guy with the unloaded gun because he is dressed just like the bad guy. Need a uniform to help tell the teams apart.

[23112]

Like a few others that have posted, I think law-abiding citizens should be allowed to carry loaded firearms. However, I don't think it will happen in California until the zombies invade our State.

Unloaded, open carry is for principle only--and absolutely pointless. It's like bringing a hammer but no nails to a construction site. That's the right tool, but it has no function!

Since CA law gives a peace officer the right to inspect any firearm to see if its in violation of the loaded-gun law, you're probably asking for that inconvenience. And, seriously, rmafera, would you stand in front of a person handing your their firearm to see if its loaded with your hands in your pockets? If so, apply for a different job. If not, you've got your answer, already. :smile:

[David]

IMO, California's current CCW laws victimize law-abiding citizens while doing absolutely nothing to deter criminals from carrying armed. Criminals know they're criminals, are good with that, and don't give a rip about the law anyway, so they don't care that packing their piece is illegal (they're using them to commit other illegal acts anyway!). In the meantime, the vast majority of those who choose to remain law-abiding are left unable to (legally) defend themselves against the armed predators. Well said.

Another thing: in some places (like Sacramento County) if you look at a list of people who contributed to the sheriff's election campaign and a list of people the sheriff has issued CCW permits to, they tend to be suspiciously similar. :think:

I remember reading an article in one of the LE-related journals a few years back in which they interviewed an imprisoned armed robber. He admitted that capering in "shall-issue" states made made his "job" harder and more dangerous, not knowing who around him was armed and who wasn't. He said that he preferred to do his crimes in states with stricter firearms laws because he could be more sure that his potential victims (and possible witnesses/bystanders) wouldn't be armed. Easy pickins. I believe it.

I know a guy who is a cop in the greater Houston area, and he says the citizens there shoot home invaders and armed robbers all the time (Texas has "castle doctrine").

[bcjack]

No WORSE worst case is I respond to the call and shoot the guy with the unloaded gun because he is dressed just like the bad guy. Need a uniform to help tell the teams apart.

Good point...

[AyatollahGondola]

Unloaded, open carry is for principle only--and absolutely pointless. It's like bringing a hammer but no nails to a construction site. That's the right tool, but it has no function!
But that's the first amendment complimenting the 2nd. The display of legal firearm possession is making a statement.

[Mac]

...The display of legal firearm possession is making a statement.
I understand that aspect of it 100% and have no problem with it...but I still think it's a bad idea from a tactical standpoint.


I've already said that I fully support a law-abiding citizen's right to openly carry an unloaded weapon in compliance with law. But those who choose to do so need to realize a few things:

1) While it's perfectly legal, it's also highly unusual in this State and may (probably will) alarm many civilians around you. You most likely will draw the attention of law enforcement, either via direct observation or due to citizens' reports.

2) Any peace officer has a legal right to inspect your firearm to ensure that it is in fact unloaded (refer to Penal Code section 12031(e)). Refusal to allow such inspection constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of Penal Code section 12031(a)(1).

3) Any peace officer who values his/her own life and wants to go home at the end of his/her shift is most likely not going to stand there in front of you with their hands in their pockets and ask you to draw your firearm and show them that it's not loaded, regardless of how law-abiding you are and how honorable your intentions may be. There is a very good chance that you will be "tactically separated" from your firearm in some manner.

4) In regards to #2 and #3 above, it would be in your best interest (if you value your own life and want to go home safely) to keep your hands away from your firearm if approached by a peace officer and to obey any/all commands. This is not a good time to become indignant or hostile. Don't create a tragic outcome to what could have otherwise been a peacefully resolved situation. The officer is not trying to violate your legal/constitutional rights - he/she is discharging his/her duties and making sure he/she stays alive in the process.

Put yourself in the officer's shoes....what is the first rule of firearm safety? "Always treat any gun as loaded until proven otherwise". So your magazine well is empty? Great. There could still be one round in the tube, and one round is enough. The officer is dealing with an "unknown" at this point - he/she most likely has never met you and knows nothing about you. You could be the nicest, most straight-arrow, law-abiding person in the world....on the other hand, you could also be a sociopath whack-job who's brazen enough to openly carry their firearm on their way to the next mass murder to hit the five o'clock news - or a despondent/emotionally disturbed person attempting to draw law enforcement response and commit "suicide by cop". They were probably dispatched to a "man with a gun" call....not a "citizen exercising their legal/constitutional right to open carry" call.

If you're going to exercise your "open carry" rights, do it sensibly. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. The gun-grabbers would love nothing more than to have a few utterly tragic incidents as fodder to show how inherently dangerous "open carry" is, and use them as a vehicle to promote legislation completely outlawing it.

[G-Man]

While I agree with most of what is said here about law abiding citizens carrying loaded weapons, I disagree about the unloaded weapon being completely ridiculous, it is more like sort of ridiculous.

Just like any weapon, a firearm is completely useless unless you train with it. It is currently legal to open carry ammunition. There is nothing illegal about carrying an unloaded firearm in a holster in plain view AND having a loaded magazine on your hip in plain view. I bet that with adequate training, most people can un-holster a gun, insert a magazine, and rack a round in under 3 seconds. Heck, come to think of it... I don't think it is illegal to have the slide locked to the rear which should shave some time of the loading, all one would need is a holster to accommodate the weapon.

While it is not going to help if someone as an already loaded gun to your head, you may have some time in the "take over robbery" situation posed earlier.

[Snow Patrol]

I often tell people that the easiest way to get a California CCW permit is to become a cop.

Sad, but true.

[Bradley]

I often tell people that the easiest way to get a California CCW permit is to become a cop.

Sad, but true.

Yeah - you're probably right.

Although, from what I understand, some Sheriffs departments issue CCW for non-peace officer positions. San Diego Sheriff detention officers come to mind.

[PapaBear]

But that's the first amendment complimenting the 2nd. The display of legal firearm possession is making a statement.

Not! The "statement" is an arrogant display of irrational idiocy!

You see, there are 300 million citizens in these United States and all but a few live within the limitations of law, are respectful of others, do not challenge the sanctity of peace and tranquility, are not a threat to humanity or safety and do not detract the peace keepers from their appointed rounds.

Openly carrying an unloaded firearm is just an individual display of one's dislike for others. Like those who decide they have "a right" to destroy their bodies and openly smoke illegal substances in public or drive after drinking.

The Constitution of the United States allows for the peaceful demonstration by those who are of a different opinion than the majority; but, it does not assign the right of that individual to be foolish and irresponsible.

Carry your unloaded weapon as much as you wish, but do not get upset when you are confronted by those who offer a counter opinion or challenge you publicly to assure that the law is complied with and the weapon is unloaded.

As with all other guaranteed Constitutional rights, if people want me to respect their right to display, they must respect my obligation to enforce. It is for the betterment and safety of the majority that we perform our duties; not for the individual who places himself above all others and strays beyond the bounds of reason and/or law.

We were born naked. Should society allow us to parade within the community sans clothing because that was the way we greeted humanity? No! As such, we should not stray and interpret the law to satisfy our own egos. That is why society has declared its need for the courts and law enforcement.

If the OC people would just go about their daily routines while armed, with an unloaded weapon, no one would take a second look; but, when they organize a group and force their views on others who are peaceably enjoying a meal or refreshment, they step beyond the bounds of common courtesy and lawfulness. Disrupting others is not a right guaranteed in any law.

[cjincognito]

IIRC, the Orange County Sheriff kinda got his nuggets in a bind when people realized just who he'd been issuing CCW's to. :doh:

[Bradley]

this article made me think of this thread ....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2010/mar/01/guns-starbucks-virginia

[AyatollahGondola]

Not! The "statement" is an arrogant display of irrational idiocy!.
A lot of arrogant displays of irrational idiocy have preceeded major changes in law or public policy. Martin Luther King marched in the streets, and with reckless abandon, drew many peace keepers away from their appointed rounds. He(they) challenged the peace and tranquility, and then became a threat to safety, else the peacekeepers would not have had to unleash the dogs and water cannons on them. I could go on, but you get the drift. I'm sure you could find a few open-carrier's that have a dislike for others, and for that matter, I don't like people that much, but I'm stuck with them for the duration, so I do what I can to get along without sacrificing my own rights and privilidges. It's about the bill of rights. Those weren't earned in peaceful tranquility, and they don't seem well protected by it either. It's been a long time ago when I first came here that I made a post about firearms being obsolete some day. I'd still like to see that day, but in the interim, just as I am stuck with people, I'm stuck with antiquity of the cap and ball. I doubt the casual display ever actually frightened anyone to death.

[calcrew]

Regarding CCW’s being issued in the state of California, I know that issue has been a big one here in El Dorado County. Our Sheriff candidates have made it a big part of their campaign, looks like who ever wins will be more likely to grant them (except Luca)
http://search.mtdemocrat.com/display.php?id=53234 (http://search.mtdemocrat.com/display.php?id=53234)

[AFB]

[QUOTE=PapaBear;95684]Open carry is lawful in CA.

Final note: all of the street savy homies know that when they see someone in an open carry situation that the weapon is unloaded, so displaying it in that manner is not a deterrent to criminal activity.

+1 :cool:

[CAHPDist2X]

this article made me think of this thread ....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2010/mar/01/guns-starbucks-virginia

What a great idea! Give expresso to a redneck with a gun and stand back.:popcorn:

[AyatollahGondola]

[QUOTE=PapaBear;95684]Open carry is lawful in CA.

Final note: all of the street savy homies know that when they see someone in an open carry situation that the weapon is unloaded, so displaying it in that manner is not a deterrent to criminal activity.

+1 :cool:
Displaying the unloaded firearm is not meant to deter crime. It's meant to reinforce a right. It's also meant to get people used to seeing other people, non-LEO's, carry a firearm again.

[jt104]

[QUOTE=AFB;97574]
Displaying the unloaded firearm is not meant to deter crime. It's meant to reinforce a right. It's also meant to get people used to seeing other people, non-LEO's, carry a firearm again.

Like when? 1865 Keep the guns in the home. There was no open carry in Tombstone.

[AyatollahGondola]

[QUOTE=AyatollahGondola;97602]

Like when? .
Like now. This isn't 1865 where there was little worry over whether you could possess a firearm or not. nowadays someone with a gun is looked at as an abnormality or a threat. If more people are seen in public with a gun that are not abnormal or threatening, then we will be working towards a noble goal.

[chpbagpiper]

Seems about 1/4 bubble off plumb to me.:think:

[CAHPDist2X]

Think about why we openly carry on duty. to show our authority, To establish our capability, and yes, a little intimidation. Now think why you DON'T openly carry off duty. All of us are able but I'm guessing none of us has. :think:

[FlyWhiteGuy]

Just in case no one has heard, legislation against open carry has already been put on the table.

Too bad anti gunners noticed.

OH, it's AB 1934 will be heard this Tuesday, April 20.

[Mac]

Just in case no one has heard, legislation against open carry has already been put on the table...
...and on the flip side of the coin, neighboring Arizona (who already allows loaded open carry) has legislation on the table to allow all citizens to carry concealed (and loaded) without permits.

Let's see if I have this straight - Kalifornia wants to make it completely legal for everybody to smoke marijuana, and completely illegal for everybody to carry guns. I think we have our priorities screwed up.

[AyatollahGondola]

Think about why we openly carry on duty. to show our authority, To establish our capability, and yes, a little intimidation. Now think why you DON'T openly carry off duty. All of us are able but I'm guessing none of us has. :think:

You know, I was never aware that intimidation was slightly behind the open carry on duty. I always thought it was to make the tools very accessible while on the job, ie you don't conceal the radio, cuffs, baton, etc. Of course it does establish capability though, and the badge and uniform shows the authority.
LEO's are not in the crosshairs of gun restrictions as much as the way citizens are, so most would not be as inclined to be active in addressing them. Not that they might not feel strongly about their constitutional rights, but the measure used to gauge the threat is likely a bit different having a different standard applied to them by government. Open carry would also be more controversial for a sworn LEO to practice than it would be for a non sworn LEO. Decades ago I could walk to my hunting/target shooting grounds carrying my firearm without so much as a wave by my neighbors and sometimes an offer of a ride. Now we are getting to a point where I'm supposed to hide it so as not to create a disturbance. This is the part that I'm concerned with. If something was so valuable that it was spelled out in the bill of rights can be turned into something to be villainized a little at a time to the point you are automatically under suspicion for exercising it, then how safe are any of them from then on?
I know that some of you are aware that I am a strong 1st amendment proponent as well, and exercise that as much or more as the 2nd. I have come to see the same standards and tactics applied to my exercise of that one as I see with the 2nd.
I don't feel particularly threatening to the populace when I open carry, as it is far from my intent. I do agree that there are people who do open carry that do so with other underlying drivers. It's unfortunate, but I have no idea how to control that. the state gives drivers licenses to people with the same types of issues and they use those improperly all the time.

[AyatollahGondola]

Just in case no one has heard, legislation against open carry has already been put on the table.

Too bad anti gunners noticed.

OH, it's AB 1934 will be heard this Tuesday, April 20.

I think this was a direct response to a fued between Saldana and a border security group in southern CA. she was battling them over the road clean up sign program, and then the border secureuy group also got involved with the OC group and held OC events down there. It was an inevitable consequence

[rufio11]

...and on the flip side of the coin, neighboring Arizona (who already allows loaded open carry) has legislation on the table to allow all citizens to carry concealed (and loaded) without permits.

Let's see if I have this straight - Kalifornia wants to make it completely legal for everybody to smoke marijuana, and completely illegal for everybody to carry guns. I think we have our priorities screwed up.

Its called Liberalism/Socialism, California is run by it. Soon it wont have the power that it once had and then we will be much more free, like America was always suppose to be.

[PassinThru]

Originally Posted by CAHPDist2 http://www.chpforums.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chpforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=95949#post95949)
No WORSE worst case is I respond to the call and shoot the guy with the unloaded gun because he is dressed just like the bad guy. Need a uniform to help tell the teams apart.

Good point...

I disagree.

The OC Guys is going to be COMPLIANT. OC guy will probably be a deterent for the Bad Guy to stick around or, good chance the OC guy already engaged the bad guy or vise a versa.

Chances are Bad Guy's going to be non-compliant and flee and/or engage L/E upon contact.

Just talk to other LEOs in AZ, WY, ID, FL and other States where OC or CCW is common.

There are enough tools on the books to enforce firearms related issues in CA. Penalizing/Restricting law abiding citizens is not the answer.

[Mac]

...The OC Guys is going to be COMPLIANT. OC guy will probably be a deterent for the Bad Guy to stick around or, good chance the OC guy already engaged the bad guy or vise a versa.

Chances are Bad Guy's going to be non-compliant and flee and/or engage L/E upon contact...
While I agree 100% that restricting law-abiding citizens is not the answer, I disagree with the premise that the OC guy is always going to be compliant and/or properly identify themselves. Just as there are a lot of people driving who shouldn't be because they don't possess the necessary common sense or judgment, there are also people who OC without taking the time or effort to educate themselves on how to do it properly and responsibly, and how to act when LE comes upon them. One wrong (albeit innocent) move in a dynamic situation involving armed perpetrators can have a tragic outcome. It has happened in the past even with off-duty/plainclothes officers who got too caught up in the situation and didn't respond properly when confronted by their brothers in uniform.

It's very easy for any Joe Citizen to strap a gun on their belt and walk out the door. It's much more involved to do so responsibly and to be prepared for whatever you may encounter. A lot of people may look at it as just being "cool" to do so, but carrying a gun brings with it an enormous responsibility. For those citizens who choose to carry openly (or concealed in states which allow it), it is incumbent upon you to mentor and police your fellow armed citizens so that they understand the responsibility and don't screw it up for everybody else.

[AyatollahGondola]

While I agree 100% that restricting law-abiding citizens is not the answer, I disagree with the premise that the OC guy is always going to be compliant and/or properly identify themselves. Just as there are a lot of people driving who shouldn't be because they don't possess the necessary common sense or judgment, there are also people who OC without taking the time or effort to educate themselves on how to do it properly and responsibly, and how to act when LE comes upon them. One wrong (albeit innocent) move in a dynamic situation involving armed perpetrators can have a tragic outcome. It has happened in the past even with off-duty/plainclothes officers who got too caught up in the situation and didn't respond properly when confronted by their brothers in uniform.

It's very easy for any Joe Citizen to strap a gun on their belt and walk out the door. It's much more involved to do so responsibly and to be prepared for whatever you may encounter. A lot of people may look at it as just being "cool" to do so, but carrying a gun brings with it an enormous responsibility. For those citizens who choose to carry openly (or concealed in states which allow it), it is incumbent upon you to mentor and police your fellow armed citizens so that they understand the responsibility and don't screw it up for everybody else.

I was just reading about some motorcyclist who was red-lighted and stopped by a PD somewhere, and he stopped, started digging in his pocket for license and reg while voicing some complaints to the cop, and the cop shot him saying he thought he was reaching for a weapon. Now the cyclist is facing life in a wheelchair, and the cop facing ten years in prison. Bad situation all around, and it highlights the dire consequences facing both sides of the issue in law enforcement encounters. The gun obviously raises the tension, but open carry at least provides for disclosure of your assets in the encounter.