Is a Carpool or (HOV) a moving violation..or a simple fine...?

[kenny]

I would go for it! However, I would right you 27315 (d)V.C for allowing your passenger to ride without wearing his/her seatbelt.:badgrin:

HAHA:lol:

[WannaBeaChippie]

Can anyone tell me the difference--I wanted to know if a HOV violation could get you points on your license...?

[not5150]

Can anyone tell me the difference--I wanted to know if a HOV violation could get you points on your license...?

I'm not sure on whether it's moving or not, but damn it's not really a simple fine - It's HUGE.

[bcjack]

Based on the 2005 Bail Schedule, 21655.5 (b) has a fine of $350.00 and no points charged


http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/reference/documents/05JCBail.pdf

[dw]

Being solo in the carpool lane is not a moving violation (21655.5 b), however crossing the dividing section (quad yellow lines) into or out of a divided HOV lane (considered a HOV violation) is a moving violation (21655.8 ).

[SB 405]

Hey dw speaking of the HOV double yellow lines. What's the distance between breaks in the lines where you can exit and enter the lane? Seems like whenever i'm driving in the lane I end up missing my exit because I can't get out. Is it every mile or mile and a half etc...

[WannaBeaChippie]

Ahhh...thank you.

[dw]

Hey dw speaking of the HOV double yellow lines. What's the distance between breaks in the lines where you can exit and enter the lane? Seems like whenever i'm driving in the lane I end up missing my exit because I can't get out. Is it every mile or mile and a half etc...

I've never worked an area with that type of divided HOV lane, but I always assumed it was a certain distance before/after the ramps, not at specific intervals.

Anyone?

[carcop]

Correct! A sign is generally posted on the left side that tells what up coming exit is coming. (not the Green ones over head). Most people miss those signs but they let you know that : "if you want to get off on Main street then you need to exit the carpool NOW." Most people just blow by them in the warp speed lane ... slow down a bit and you'll see it.:biggrin:

[TheForceCHP]

since we are on the subject.

I frequently ask questions at my local CHP office, but i have a new one that i haven't had the chance to ask, in regards to riding my bike in the carpool lane. I already know that it is legal to lane-split in the carpool lane, the normal rules of under the speed limit and being safe, but i recently did a little bit more and noticed some things that had me wondering.

1. Ok so i am splitting, the carpool lane is tight, and the person squeezes me onto the double yellow line. i assume that an officer seeing this would not have a problem with me riding on the double yellow, BUT they might say that i wasn't riding safely if i had to do that. what is your opinion(just asking opinion as every officer and situation differs)

2. I also noticed that some riders use the space between the double yellows as a bike lane. now this bothers me as i see this as a blatant violation, but could i be wrong. i heard of some riders calling this the "home depot" lane, due to all of the tools and debris that can often be found in that part of the double yellow, and some where saying that they use it all of the time. again i don't do this because it seems that to do it i would have to cross a double yellow and then would be riding in between two double yellows that are not designated as a lane. just looking for opinions on this also

Thanks

[dw]

1. Ok so i am splitting, the carpool lane is tight, and the person squeezes me onto the double yellow line. i assume that an officer seeing this would not have a problem with me riding on the double yellow, BUT they might say that i wasn't riding safely if i had to do that. what is your opinion(just asking opinion as every officer and situation differs)

I'm not sure how one could ever articulate (or convince themselves) it is safe or legal to split in a divided, single lane, carpool lane. The fact that you describe the situation as "tight" means it is probably not the safest thing to be doing. 21658(a) applies when splitting on a multiple-lane roadway. While one may be riding primarily in, say, the #1 or #2 lanes, crowding the Botts Dotts in the process, consider this: Extend the lane separation line vertically -- is the motorcycle entirely within one lane? Probably not, therefore 21658(a) has been violated. Now, in the case of a single-lane carpool lane, 21658(a) would not apply, but other sections such as 21651(a) would. A catch-all for lane splitting is 22350, the basic speed law, which simply says you can only go as fast is reasonable, prudent, and safe. Again, the fact the situation is "tight" (vehicles in close proximity with little room for error) and the very real possibility of being "squeezed" into the dividing section, show 22350 has been violated.


2. I also noticed that some riders use the space between the double yellows as a bike lane. now this bothers me as i see this as a blatant violation, but could i be wrong. i heard of some riders calling this the "home depot" lane, due to all of the tools and debris that can often be found in that part of the double yellow, and some where saying that they use it all of the time. again i don't do this because it seems that to do it i would have to cross a double yellow and then would be riding in between two double yellows that are not designated as a lane. just looking for opinions on this also

Clear violation of 21651(a) and 22350 (because of debris). And how on earth can you ride in the dividing section for more than a mile without getting a flat?

I have no heartburn with responsible splitting... As an example, say 5-10 miles per hour faster than the flow of traffic at no more than 35 miles per hour total, given daylight, clear weather, 12' lanes in good condition, etc... Even "responsible" splitting, I would argue, is in technical violation of 21658(a) -- there's no way every inch of the bike is within the vertical prolongation of the lane lines.

[TheForceCHP]

Basically what i figured, thank you. The office that i had talked to told me that it was legal to split in the carpool lane, but in regards to general splitting warned me to not go faster then 10mph over what traffic was doing and to keep under the speed limit. Both of those are rules that i follow when i split, though i have to say that going more the 10mph while splitting is just asking for trouble!

You mention 21658(a) and i have been informed about this before, but why is it that the DMV handbook specifically states that splitting is legal?(note: i am not by any means trying to start a flame war, i am just trying to become better informed!)

[dw]

You mention 21658(a) and i have been informed about this before, but why is it that the DMV handbook specifically states that splitting is legal?(note: i am not by any means trying to start a flame war, i am just trying to become better informed!)

If I had a nickel for every inaccuracy in the DMV handbook... ;)

Unfortunately, DMV has statements in their handbook that are not backed by any laws in California; conversely, there are laws the handbook does not cover well. In answer to your question, as I said, I believe splitting to be a technical violation (in terms of vertical propagation) and in keeping with the spirit of the law, it is not something we readily enforce. Similar to the maximum speed law -- it is illegal to drive than 65 miles per hour on most freeways, but due to speedometer error, etc..., a few miles per hour grace are generally granted.

[TheForceCHP]

thanks DW for the response! I fully understand what you are saying and am assimilating the info. you gave so I can better try and follow the law

[Fish'nChip]

Bottom of the page under "Riding Tips"

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/motors.html

[kenny]

Ok this might sound stupid but if I am in a Hurse or a car carring a decesed person and I am by myself can I drive in the carpool?:biggrin: :confused::

[DESERT RAT]

I would go for it! However, I would right you 27315 (d)V.C for allowing your passenger to ride without wearing his/her seatbelt.:badgrin:

[Mac]

Ok this might sound stupid but if I am in a Hurse or a car carring a decesed person and I am by myself can I drive in the carpool?:biggrin: :confused::
The definitions of "corpse" and "person" are entirely different (at least in most cases!).

[bcjack]

If the person is already dead, what good is the seatbelt in the event of a crash???????:lol:

[Mac]

If the person is already dead, what good is the seatbelt in the event of a crash???????:lol:
Well, it's too late at that point to say that the seatbelt might save their life....but you can definitively say that they won't die as a result of the t/c if they're wearing it! :shock:ops:

[kenny]

lol

[Sportbiker]

Ok this might sound stupid but if I am in a Hurse or a car carring a decesed person and I am by myself can I drive in the carpool?:biggrin: :confused::

that is so not right!!! ha...i have no idea if that is legal or not.

As far as the lane splitting, i'm seeing these VC being put up so this next statement is probably useless. I have heard many stories as to why we can lane split, considering not every state allows it. (ie i took my best friend from Indiana on a ride and I scared the crap outta her cause indy doesnt allow for lane splitting at all and she wasnt used to it.....whats the use of a bike then) but what i was gunna say was, back before CHP motors had a coolin system on it, they bikes would over heat in the CA sun on the roads, so to compensate for that they allowed lane splitting so the cops can keep the air flow going...

that was the best reason i have heard...others were like, if we can get one more person off the road, thats one more person who wont get into a crash....

I dunno, Im just thinking off the top of my head!

I ride a bike, and i lane split. if the lane is wide enough one a one lane road...and you can pass safely...can you??? I thought i read a supplemental to a VC that said if there is sufficient room for two motorist to occupy one lane, that a motorist may pass another....

whaddya think?

[dw]

but what i was gunna say was, back before CHP motors had a coolin system on it, they bikes would over heat in the CA sun on the roads, so to compensate for that they allowed lane splitting so the cops can keep the air flow going...

I've heard that argument for years and have never seen it supported. I call urban legend until proved otherwise.

I thought i read a supplemental to a VC that said if there is sufficient room for two motorist to occupy one lane, that a motorist may pass another....

Nothing precludes two vehicles from "sharing" a lane, provided they both fit within the lane (remember the vertical component of the lane). And they don't need to be passing one another. Two motorcycles can share a lane, a car and a bicycle, whatever. The point is that an average sized car and a motorcycle are not going to fit entirely within a 12' lane.

To answer the question, "if the lane is wide enough on a one lane road and you can safely pass, is it legal?" If it is wide enough to safely accomodate both vehicles, then yes. But there aren't a lot of single lane 16' roadways out there.

Forgot about specific laws, roadways, and other fine-tuned scenarios. Splitting is permitted in California if done in a safe and prudent manner using good judgment. Rarely do riders split using common sense and good judgment.

[Sportbiker]

Rarely do riders split using common sense and good judgment.

hmm how is that determined until something stupid happens?? typically it looks like riders arent, due to the poor reaction of a motorist who OBVIOUSLY isnt driving correctly. If they were maintaining a 4 second mirror scan like they showed everyone in drivers ed, you would see that motorcycle splitting lanes....i vote for a lane made just for motorcycles!

[SB 405]

Rarely do riders split using common sense and good judgment.

hmm how is that determined until something stupid happens?? typically it looks like riders arent, due to the poor reaction of a motorist who OBVIOUSLY isnt driving correctly. If they were maintaining a 4 second mirror scan like they showed everyone in drivers ed, you would see that motorcycle splitting lanes....i vote for a lane made just for motorcycles!

I'm afraid the four second mirror scan has been replaced with the four second who's that calling me scan of the cell phone.

[Sportbiker]

I'm afraid the four second mirror scan has been replaced with the four second who's that calling me scan of the cell phone.

HAHA true true

[TypeS]

Being solo in the carpool lane is not a moving violation (21655.5 b),

hmm since it's not a moving violation (no point on record), does it still need to be listed on the PHS? i just read the big paragraph at the top of the Cadet arrest/citation questionaire, and it states "all traffic citations," but i'm still confused on if this is included.
:smile:

and also about 5 years ago, i got a citation for having alcohol in a state park (mt. diablo). i was not arrested, it was just a fine. since this is not a traffic violation, do i still need to list this as a citation?

thanks :cool:

[WannaBeaChippie]

Being solo in the carpool lane is not a moving violation (21655.5 b),

hmm since it's not a moving violation (no point on record), does it still need to be listed on the PHS? i just read the big paragraph at the top of the Cadet arrest/citation questionaire, and it states "all traffic citations," but i'm still confused on if this is included.
:smile:

and also about 5 years ago, i got a citation for having alcohol in a state park (mt. diablo). i was not arrested, it was just a fine. since this is not a traffic violation, do i still need to list this as a citation?

thanks :cool: Yes, you must list it...it isn't a moving violation but it is a fine, and you have to list it. Hey I got two in one year, be prepared to explain it. Technically you were cited...even though it's a fine, failure to pay the "fine" can result in a warrant, or a hold on your vehicle registration or license. A citation is a violation of a penal code that serious enough to get you a ticket...it's not like a Misdemeanor or a Felony...sorry buddy, there's no way out.:biggrin:shock:ubt:

[gbcracing4]

Ok this might sound stupid but if I am in a Hurse or a car carring a decesed person and I am by myself can I drive in the carpool?:biggrin: :confused::

I know someone that got a ticket for this. He fought this for a long time and lost. He still gets mad if I ask him about it but I still laugh at him for it..............

[WannaBeaChippie]

Ok this might sound stupid but if I am in a Hurse or a car carring a decesed person and I am by myself can I drive in the carpool?:biggrin: :confused::

I know someone that got a ticket for this. He fought this for a long time and lost. He still gets mad if I ask him about it but I still laugh at him for it..............People do the silliest things, trying to beat the system:lol:

[TypeS]

Being solo in the carpool lane is not a moving violation (21655.5 b),

hmm since it's not a moving violation (no point on record), does it still need to be listed on the PHS? i just read the big paragraph at the top of the Cadet arrest/citation questionaire, and it states "all traffic citations," but i'm still confused on if this is included.
:smile:

and also about 5 years ago, i got a citation for having alcohol in a state park (mt. diablo). i was not arrested, it was just a fine. since this is not a traffic violation, do i still need to list this as a citation?

thanks :cool: Yes, you must list it...it isn't a moving violation but it is a fine, and you have to list it. Hey I got two in one year, be prepared to explain it. Technically you were cited...even though it's a fine, failure to pay the "fine" can result in a warrant, or a hold on your vehicle registration or license. A citation is a violation of a penal code that serious enough to get you a ticket...it's not like a Misdemeanor or a Felony...sorry buddy, there's no way out.:biggrin:shock:ubt: thanks for the reply, but i'm not sure which question you are answering :lol: it could go either way :lol:

well if it is the 2nd one, that sucks. i did NOT even bring the alcohol to the state park, some of my friends did and i told them that they are responsible for it, not me. but when the ranger showed up, i happened to be sitting next to it and he saw me quickly try to hide it. i was doing a good thing by trying to protect my friend, which was the natural reaction, only i got screwed. i wasn't drinking at all, but he didn't care. the others had the alcohol on their breath, but i got the ticket, not them. :neutral:

[WannaBeaChippie]

Okay, let me rephrase, if you received a ticket...you must list it. You are in the Golden Gate Division too? Those BI's do not play around, don't try to jip them..list the ticket or they will find out. Just be honest, you'd be suprised at how far you can get with honesty in the process.-Good Luck..;)

[TypeS]

Okay, let me rephrase, if you received a ticket...you must list it. You are in the Golden Gate Division too? Those BI's do not play around, don't try to jip them..list the ticket or they will find out. Just be honest, you'd be suprised at how far you can get with honesty in the process.-Good Luck..;) yeah, i'm in the GG div.

and i want to get as much information as i can dig up to be as honest as possible :smile:

thanks for all the help :cool:

[WannaBeaChippie]

Okay, let me rephrase, if you received a ticket...you must list it. You are in the Golden Gate Division too? Those BI's do not play around, don't try to jip them..list the ticket or they will find out. Just be honest, you'd be suprised at how far you can get with honesty in the process.-Good Luck..;) yeah, i'm in the GG div.

and i want to get as much information as i can dig up to be as honest as possible :smile:

thanks for all the help :cool: Well it's simple, when you get asked a question whether it be good or bad, be honest. If you are going to get DQ'd there is no way around it If you get DQ'd find out why, if there is no explanation for it...reapply. If you make it all the way to the academy..excellent. I wish you the best of luck.

[dw]

Being solo in the carpool lane is not a moving violation (21655.5 b),

hmm since it's not a moving violation (no point on record), does it still need to be listed on the PHS? i just read the big paragraph at the top of the Cadet arrest/citation questionaire, and it states "all traffic citations," but i'm still confused on if this is included.
:smile:

and also about 5 years ago, i got a citation for having alcohol in a state park (mt. diablo). i was not arrested, it was just a fine. since this is not a traffic violation, do i still need to list this as a citation?

thanks :cool:

The very first line of the instructions read, "Enter below all arrests or citations and their disposition, regardless of when or where they occurred." Yes, later it specifically mentions traffic citations, but you need to list EVERYTHING -- every arrest, every citation, anywhere during your entire life.

[Dolmen]

Nothing precludes two vehicles from "sharing" a lane, provided they both fit within the lane (remember the vertical component of the lane). And they don't need to be passing one another. Two motorcycles can share a lane, a car and a bicycle, whatever. The point is that an average sized car and a motorcycle are not going to fit entirely within a 12' lane.
I don't know about that, it seems to me that a 6' wide car and a 3' wide motorcycle fit pretty well within a 12' wide lane with more than a couple of feet to spare.

Now granted there are a few bikes wider than 3', and ironically these are typically the air cooled monstrosities that the law was supposedly enacted to cater for, but I doubt either sportbiker or myself ride these things and probably wouldn't split traffic if we did.

To answer the question, "if the lane is wide enough on a one lane road and you can safely pass, is it legal?" If it is wide enough to safely accomodate both vehicles, then yes. But there aren't a lot of single lane 16' roadways out there.

Forgot about specific laws, roadways, and other fine-tuned scenarios. Splitting is permitted in California if done in a safe and prudent manner using good judgment. Rarely do riders split using common sense and good judgment.
I would like to disagree with this too if I may :smile:

I wouldn't say "rarely" do riders split with common sense, but I would definitely agree that I've seen some pretty Godawful splitting done out there, guys who kind of hover around and you aren't sure if they are or aren't going, then just when you decide they're going to stay put, they change their minds and dive for the gap, or guys who split far FAR too quickly for safety (along with the idiots who think the 405 during rush hour is the ideal place to pop triple digit wheelies).

Usually however I would say these were the rare examples, most riders I've seen who aren't sure about lane splitting simply don't do it, which is generally the rule that I follow, if I can't do it safely I won't bother doing it at all.

I'm lucky in that I was trained in England, where lane splitting is very common, and I spent a few years riding in central London, where the roads are nothing like as wide as they are here I can tell you, but I gathered a lot of very valuable lane splitting experience and would like to think of myself as a pretty decent rider, the basic rules I follow are these;

1: Watch the car's wheels! When someone's about to do something stupid, their front wheels will turn and you should be reacting to that before they swerve in front of you, if you can, watch for head turns or hands moving on the steering wheel.
2: If you even think there's a possibility of clipping someone's mirror or not having enough space to get through, don't bother trying.
3: Stationary traffic is safer to split in than moving traffic (a car can't swerve across lanes if he's blocked in front and rear)
4: Once traffic hits 35mph, don't bother splitting, the extra risk is just too great in comparison to the little time you'll save.
5: The most dangerous situations are riding along the outside of a line of cars in a gap in traffic or an empty lane, in which case you may as well move into the center of the empty lane (or ideally a little further away from the stopped cars)
6: NEVER, under ANY circumstances, try to split past a semi unless traffic is absolutely and completely stationary and will NOT move for as long as it takes you to get past it and you're SURE he's not turning right when you're going straight.
7: Keep an eye on the light the cars are stopped at, unless you know you have enough time to split to the front, don't bother, merging back in to pulling away traffic is more dangerous than splitting to the front and gunning it (check that cross traffic has stopped as well, even if you have a green light, you know what LA drivers are like).
8: Watch for gaps up ahead, cars in gridlocked traffic (some of them) will be letting oncoming vehicles make a left turn right in front of them, you don't want to try to gun it into a gap only to find an SUV turning across you.
9: Speedwise I find that you want to be going slow enough to give you plenty of reaction time, but fast enough that you don't spend any more time than you absolutely have to in someone's blind spot (typically this is between 10 and 20mph faster than traffic).
10: Watch for pedestrians, most people aren't aware enough to bother looking for bikes and will sprint (not walk, sprint!) across the road between gridlocked cars.
11: Don't split past parked cars, you'll either get doored or someone will walk out in front of you.
12: Again, if you aren't sure, DON'T!

Lastly, if there's a guy on a big black bike behind you whose been stuck behind you for the past few miles, get out of his way if you can :smile:

It would be nice if US training was even remotely close to the level of European training, but sadly it isn't, and given that splitting traffic is probably the most dangerous thing for a new rider to be doing on a motorcycle, I think that the MSF courses should at least pay lip service to it, even if it's only to tell you not to unless you're totally comfortable with handling your machine in tight spaces, but unfortunately they don't even mention it in either the basic or 'advanced' courses (I've done both).

Keep it shiny side up :smile:

[makakona]

funny you should mention the 405. we were on it yesterday, stuck in regular evening traffic. we were in the hov lane, luckily, and were able to hurry past the traffic to our right. some idiot motorcyclist split between us and the next lane, going over 80. i was shocked. even more shocking was when the guy behind us jerked his car to the right to cut off the next approaching cyclist. oy. it wasn't shocking, however, when said driver later dove out of the hov lane, crossed the yellows, and cut us off, again over the yellows, showing us that he was solo. lovely.

dw, thanks for the info on lanes. there's a lane by our house that cuts from two down to one, but stays wide. eventually, the road splits back into two lanes, the right being an exit only. it's always bugged me that i stay in line and wait my turn to actually get to where the lanes split to exit while everyone else flies past to cut up ahead. it annoyed me on my way home last night and i forgot to ask the better half about the legality of it all. good to know that *i* am the moron in this case. :smile:

[dw]

Nothing precludes two vehicles from "sharing" a lane, provided they both fit within the lane (remember the vertical component of the lane). And they don't need to be passing one another. Two motorcycles can share a lane, a car and a bicycle, whatever. The point is that an average sized car and a motorcycle are not going to fit entirely within a 12' lane.
I don't know about that, it seems to me that a 6' wide car and a 3' wide motorcycle fit pretty well within a 12' wide lane with more than a couple of feet to spare.

You're right. I'm wrong.

Read what I wrote about the vertical component of the lane.

There is an inherent risk tolane splitting and no amount of defensive driving can overcome that. Watching tires sure isn't a guarantee. Nor is stopped traffic (ever watch someone in stopped traffic turn full-lock and try and squeeze into a space? Oh wait, that involved turned tires -- nevermind.) I'm not going to argue, you can take it or leave it. Bottom line is that if one is lucky and has a mishap or splits unsafely, they may be up against one of us in court. If they are unlucky, they may have a meeting with the Coroner.

[Dolmen]

Read what I wrote about the vertical component of the lane.

Sorry, but I don't quite follow what you mean by vertical component.

There is an inherent risk tolane splitting and no amount of defensive driving can overcome that.

There is an inherent risk to riding a motorcycle and believe it or not, lane splitting is safer for us than sitting in stop and go traffic where the main risk to the bike is getting rear ended by an inattentive car driver, so even though it looks risky, it's statistically less dangerous than just sitting there - you can't be rear ended when you're parked in between a couple of two ton roadblocks.

Anecdotally speaking as well, I don't know a single person who has had an accident whilst splitting, but I know a number of guys who have been hit, some injured to greater or lesser degrees, by other vehicles when they were doing nothing wrong (pretty much they were just sitting there waiting for a light or stopping at a stop sign - I know I know, actually stopping at a stop sign? What were they thinking? :smile: )

Just keep that in mind, thanks :D

[dw]

Sorry, but I don't quite follow what you mean by vertical component.
A "lane" is marked on the pavement with lines or raised markers, but many people forget that the lane edges also extend upwards. Imagine solid walls extending up from the markers to form a channel. Now try to fit a bike and car into it. Yes, they may fit, but with very little clearance. Oftentimes motorcyclists split with the tires just to one side of the markers or the other. The rest of the motorcycle extends into the adjacent lane; violating CVC 21658(a) as I explained earlier.


There is an inherent risk to riding a motorcycle and believe it or not, lane splitting is safer for us than sitting in stop and go traffic where the main risk to the bike is getting rear ended by an inattentive car driver, so even though it looks risky, it's statistically less dangerous than just sitting there - you can't be rear ended when you're parked in between a couple of two ton roadblocks.
Care to share your statistics? The only study I'm aware of is the Hurt Report, which (to my knowledge) does not address the issue of splitting.

Can splitting be done with reasonable safety? Sure. I still maintain that, based on my training and experience, the majority of motorcyclists I see splitting do so unsafely and in violation of law.

[G-Man]

Dolmen,

You have to remember that while you may believe you are doing something safely, it looks different to the objective third party observer. Kind of like the driver who is driving faster than and is making lane changes around other traffic. While you may be thinking to yourself, "man, look at me I am an awesome driver... maybe I should be in NASCAR" the rest of traffic is thinking "what a jerk, he just cut off nine cars."

Despite what you want to believe splitting lanes is dangerous and does cause accidents (even for the most experienced riders). Can it be done with reasonable safety? sure, but so can skiing (and we all know what happened to Sonny Bono). I have two friends one who was struck by a vehicle changing lanes and another who got his rear wheel caught on the front bumper of a car when the guy in front of him stopped suddenly and he swerved to the left, both while "safely lane splitting."

[23109]

Nothing precludes two vehicles from "sharing" a lane, provided they both fit within the lane (remember the vertical component of the lane). And they don't need to be passing one another. Two motorcycles can share a lane, a car and a bicycle, whatever. The point is that an average sized car and a motorcycle are not going to fit entirely within a 12' lane.
I don't know about that, it seems to me that a 6' wide car and a 3' wide motorcycle fit pretty well within a 12' wide lane with more than a couple of feet to spare.


You're right, a car and a bike could fit into a 12' lane. However, that car isn't going to be driving on the left, or right of the lane...chances are it'll be driving in the middle of the lane. That leaves about 3' of lane to the left and right of the vehicle. The bike is 3' wide. Something is going over the lane line.

[Dolmen]

A "lane" is marked on the pavement with lines or raised markers, but many people forget that the lane edges also extend upwards. Imagine solid walls extending up from the markers to form a channel. Now try to fit a bike and car into it. Yes, they may fit, but with very little clearance. Oftentimes motorcyclists split with the tires just to one side of the markers or the other. The rest of the motorcycle extends into the adjacent lane; violating CVC 21658(a) as I explained earlier.
Ah I see what you mean, and yes, I must admit that I'm guilty of this from time to time as well, but if I have an extra 3 feet to my left just over the line, I'm going to extend into that slightly if it means I get more space between myself and the car to my right.

I won't generally ride the dots though, that's definitely not a bright idea.
Care to share your statistics? The only study I'm aware of is the Hurt Report, which (to my knowledge) does not address the issue of splitting.
You're right, I was thinking the Hurt report covered it, because of what I've been told, however I can only seem to find the specific conclusions of it which don't seem to cover it, although Hurt himself has stated that he believes splitting to be safer than not doing so, but I can't find a specific statistic to reinforce that position.

However, there is a UK DfT (department for transport) report (number 54) that covers motorcycle accident statistics and states that less than 5% of accidents (accidents, not fatalities) happen when splitting (surprisingly, 2/3rds of those are partly or fully determined to be the fault of the car driver), whereas 11% of accidents are rear-end shunts.

Now curiously it seems to classify all the rear-end shunts as being the fault of the motorcyclist (typically solely Moped and Scooter riders), it doesn't suggest that there are ANY accidents that involve motorcycles getting hit from behind which means one of 3 things;
1: It never happens (not buying that one for starters, rear end collisions are the leading type of motor vehicle collision in both the UK and the US)
2: It happens but it got rolled into the 11% statistic and they did not distinguish between bike hitting car and car hitting bike (most likely in my estimation)
3: Lane splitting means that motorcycles never get hit from behind because they're always protected (about as unlikely as point 1 I'd say)

Both types of crash are still a drop in the bucket compared to the two leading causes of motorcycle accidents, which are roughly equal (depending on where you get the numbers) and are generally either
1: Motorcyclist goes into a corner too fast and runs off the road/into something hard
2: Car violates the motorcyclist's right of way.

These two types of accident account for something like 80% of all motorcycle accidents and both generally result in significant injury or death, I can't believe that splitting traffic has anything like the same injury rate given that the speeds are (or should be) significantly lower.
Can splitting be done with reasonable safety? Sure. I still maintain that, based on my training and experience, the majority of motorcyclists I see splitting do so unsafely and in violation of law.
I certainly can't argue with your experiences, but as I've said, it would be nice if splitting traffic was actually covered in the MSF course, as it is, the only mention of it I recall is in the DMV handbook which just states that it's dangerous and nothing more.

[G-Man]

UK statistics and CA statistics would most likely be different given different minds behind the wheel (LA drivers "Me first" mentality for example)

[Dolmen]

UK statistics and CA statistics would most likely be different given different minds behind the wheel (LA drivers "Me first" mentality for example)
Not sure about that, if anything the CA statistics would make rear end collisions MORE likely.

In my experience, LA drivers are generally more distracted than UK drivers, but over here we also have a lot more space, the lanes are generally wider and surprisingly the traffic density is LESS than it is in London (maybe not the UK in general, but definitely insofar as major cities are concerned).

I'd say the challenge in SoCal is different, but to about the same degree, there are just different things to be mindful of.