dead crops along I-5

[retchp]

What's the deal with all the signs along I-5 from Bakersfield to Stockton that say, "Congress created dust bowl"? Where they are located, there are no crops and the orchards that are in the fields are full of totally dead trees. Formerly there were crops and orchards in these locations. It goes on for miles and miles.

I drove the route this weekend for the first time in many years and thought it was interesting and depressing to see and would like to know if it is about water issues or what?

[Jhilfiker]

I believe it has to do with the water restrictions that farmers are having placed on them. I farm ground in the Imperial County and they are continuously having water board meetings in which they are trying to regulate the amount of water the farmers get here. Also they are trying to decide how much water San Diego will get from the Colorado River, which feeds the agricultural ground here. Its a pretty sad situation.

[AyatollahGondola]

The west has always been about water,

Farmers never get enough. The fish need it too. and now we have too many people needing it to wash cars, dishes, clothes and bodies. Now we have this environmental problem that is dictating either temporary or longer term water supplies. We keep importing more water users. They need to eat, drink, and bathe, so it's not going to ease up anytime soon. Personally, I am siding with the fish. We can always store seeds and reinvigorate the farms when and if the water returns, but once them fish go......
I don't hate farmers, but they are the neediest bunch.
Subsidized crops
subsidized labor
subsidized water.

So now we have something to read on those lonely stretches of I-5 you say?

[Salesman]

I've wondered about this as well, as I drive the I-5 to Coalinga every other week.

The west has always been about water,

Indeed, just look at the history of the Owens Valley.

[bcjack]

The water around the Sacramento Delta was diverted for the Steelhead Trout and so the farmers got screwed!!!

[Reader]

There are towns on the West side with 40% unemployment from this issue.
There are also certain "factions" who believe that there should be no agriculture in the valley.:shock:
So much for the 7th largest economy....what do they think it runs on????:hitwall:

Killing whales.....:doh:

[AyatollahGondola]

There are towns on the West side with 40% unemployment from this issue.
There are also certain "factions" who believe that there should be no agriculture in the valley.:shock:
So much for the 7th largest economy....what do they think it runs on????:hitwall:

Killing whales.....:doh:

When the fish don't bite, the fisherman sail to more productive seas
When the game isn't there, the hunters move to more lucrative areas
When the water dries up, you either move or stop farming until it rains

40% unemployment in one area could be solved the old fashioned way: 30% of the people who no longer have work will move to areas where there is still work. I'm not against farming, but I don't want to leverage the next 6 generations of Californians and sacrifice species of aquatic life that have fed people and animals for centuries to keep an enterprise alive that needs constant donations and nearly slave conditions labor to produce crops that end up lining the pockets of a few.
We don't have to support the worlds seventh largest economy. I'd settle for 27th if ours actually worked.

[Reader]

Don't get me wrong...I'm all for the environment. My grandfather brought me up to appreciate the wilds.....something that "cityfolk" don't know the real meaning of.

But NOT when it comes at the cost of 1/4 to 1/3 of our nations food supply.
Not to mention the devastation to the local and state economy.....:tape:
Having to import ALL that food from other countries that do not have the same health standards....how many invasive species are gonna come with those grapes ????
Wouldn't it be more cost effective to cut off the water to the REAL consumers of all that water....L.A., Sacramento, San Francisco and San Diego.....No can't do that....Where would those people go....It's not like jobs are hard to find in this economy.:rolleyes::doh:

:idea:....Maybe I should get a hunting license and subsidize my freezer with a little venison and boar.:badgrin: Go fishing for a few nonnative minnows for Sushi.:razz:

Just the humble opinion from a Valley resident who see's the results of the environmentalists meddling.

[jstru402]

This round of water rationing is actually because of the delta smelt. It is a sad situation all around, but the fact of the matter is that the fish were there first. It is unnatural for the central valley to be green with crops. If the farmers were to grow more sustainable produce, then this wouldn't be an issue.

And that's what it comes down to: Sustainability.

Almond trees, I imagine, don't sip water. They gulp it down. Alfalfa, which is one of the biggest crops in the central valley, also happens to be one of the most water intensive crops (forget the fact that 90% of alfalfa grown is done so feed cows instead of humans).

Too much of California is developed in deserts. Take LA for example. Without water being pumped in from all over, that place would be bone dry. And now the Owens Valley is bone try just so the LA Basin wouldn't be.

Water rights have been fought over for decades in California and the greater part of the Western US. Nothing is going to change until the approach is changed. When lawns in Palm Springs aren't the greenest of greens 12 months out of the year; when crops don't grow where they don't belong; when water isn't taken from Shasta and pumped to LA or from Yosemite and pumped to San Francisco. Only when this change happens will people and nature better suit one another. Until then, however, people who don't get their way will continue to complain while those who see the bigger picture, which goes beyond government subsidies and dollar signs, continue to celebrate their victories in conserving what future generations have the right to enjoy.

[jstru402]

Not to mention the devastation to the local and state economy.....:tape:
Having to import ALL that food from other countries that do not have the same health standards....how many invasive species are gonna come with those grapes ????


I completely agree with you to a point. Food grown in the US will always be better for the US economy. However, to some degree, Central Valley farmers calling imported produce bad, is like the pot calling the kettle black. In terms of produce, if people really want to help their local economies and support their local farmers, they need to buy as local as they can. This means buying produce from farmers markets and the such. Not only are the majority of the produce bought at most farmers markets not doused in pesticides, herbicides and any other cide you can think of, but the money you hand that person behind the table goes directly into supporting the local economy. Buying produce from your local mega mart (although they have gotten better in this regard) supports the middle man. The distributor gets the second largest cut behind the grocery store and what's left is for the farmer.

And.... your bit about health standards is unbased. FDA officials are stationed all around the world and inspect EVERYTHING that comes into this country for sale. A fruit fly would be hard pressed to make its way from Chile California in today's system. What many people don't realize is that although much of this produce is coming from overseas, all of the cmopanies shipping the produce to the US are owned and operated by American companies.

Yet another reason farmer's in the central valley are losing to the competition is because of the inability to compete. Farmers elsewhere are going organic becuase they see how it lucrative in the market and how it is good for their land. American farmers, for the most part, are set in their ways. They douse their land with chemicals and fertilizers and never give it time to rest and recooperate. Because of this they are churning out lesser products and degrading their land.

I can go on and on. I do not profess to know everything on the subject, but if anyone cares for my opinion, please feel freet o ask me any questions.

[Reader]

Too much of California is developed in deserts. Take LA for example. Without water being pumped in from all over, that place would be bone dry. And now the Owens Valley is bone try just so the LA Basin wouldn't be.

Water rights have been fought over for decades in California and the greater part of the Western US. Nothing is going to change until the approach is changed. When lawns in Palm Springs aren't the greenest of greens 12 months out of the year; when crops don't grow where they don't belong; when water isn't taken from Shasta and pumped to LA or from Yosemite and pumped to San Francisco. Only when this change happens will people and nature better suit one another.

Get used to it...it is what makes us human.....we alter our environment to suit our needs....unless you fancy living in a cave...


Until then, however, people who don't get their way will continue to complain while those who see the bigger picture, which goes beyond government subsidies and dollar signs, continue to celebrate their victories in conserving what future generations have the right to enjoy.

Ahhhhh....not gonna go there...don't want to get banned.

[jstru402]

I don't understand why you'd get banned. Nothing here is personal. Just opposing views, I guess.

I don't disagree with farming the central valley. I may disagree with what they grown and I definitely disagree with how they get their water.

Tell me how this makes sense.... the San Joaquin River runs south to north, essentially draining the southern portion of the central valley. And then some wise person thought it smart to build an aqueduct to take that same water, which just traveled hundreds of miles, and send it right back where it came from. Why wouldn't they just use the water the first time it passes them by? I guess in this scenario they would just have to make sure they don't use too much water; they would have to make sure enough water would reach the bay to sustain the delta ecosystem and the anadromous fish who rely on it.

[Reader]

I do agree...it is not the smartest system in the world....but it is what we have at the moment. Most of the water is stored in dams (we need more), but before they were built, the Valley would have "low level" seasonal floods. Thus irrigating everything. The Valley ecosystem is actually adapted to these floods...but not the towns in the valley.

Now is not the time for a radical change to the system though. The economic situation will not tolerate this. You have to have seen reports on the water marches...it will only get worse. The people are feeling that their representatives are not doing what they are supposed to do...look at Iran right now....the government ignored the rights the people perceived they had.
I'm not saying it will get that bad here...but take a stroll through some of those small farm worker towns on the west side....you will feel the tension.

Delta Smelt are not a "keystone species", the ecosystem would adapt around their loss if necessary...the only constant in nature is extinction.
I do believe in preserving the environment for future generations....my Grandfather saw to that....but people must be practical and use reason and logic instead of emotion to make decisions as important as this.

And I was going to say "Enlightened Marxists" :tape::biggrin:

[jstru402]

You are right. I have not witnessed first hand the despair some people may be experiencing and I don't claim to be able to understand the despair. But the idea that now is not the time for change may be wrong. I do not say this as fact, but maybe since everything is broken right now, today is the perfect time to go through and make drastic changes. Changes to infrastructure and changes to policies and practices.

[Reader]

The scariest words ever uttered are...."We are from the Government, and we are here to help...":shock::biggrin:.....old joke.....

Let the farmers and the people who utilize the system find a better way.....not some Politician who has no idea where their food comes from.
A farmer can get his tractor going with "balin' twine an' duct tape"....whereas a politician has to call a committee to see if it needs "fixin" in the first place...then file an environmental impact statement...blahblahblah...

Less is more....K.I.S.S.(keep it simple stupid).....:hitwall:

[Salesman]

In terms of produce, if people really want to help their local economies and support their local farmers, they need to buy as local as they can. This means buying produce from farmers markets and the such. Not only are the majority of the produce bought at most farmers markets not doused in pesticides, herbicides and any other cide you can think of, but the money you hand that person behind the table goes directly into supporting the local economy.

If anybody reading this thread is interested in pursuing this particular aspect of the conversation, I would like to suggest checking out the following link:

https://www.abundantharvestorganics.com

This is a local organic produce distributor, located in Kingsburg. They purchase only organic produce only from local California farmers. The produce is distributed to the buyers via volunteers on a weekly basis. My family and I have been using the service for several months now and absolutely love it.

This isn't a huge deal, but it's a small way in which I can work to change things. Local farmers doing the right thing and growing organically and trying to keep their product close to home get my money instead of the mega-marts.

Sorry for the tangent. Carry on! :biggrin:

[LadyVol@330]

As a farmer's daughter who grew up in the Midwest before the days of irrigation, I can tell you a thing or two about dried up crops. Some people on the river bottom had pipe irrigation (wells), but those in the sandhills were at the mercy of rain only. If the hail and hot winds didn't take away the dying crops, it might be grasshoppers or something else. A wheat crop ready to harvest could disappear overnight in the hail. I don't remember alfalfa being so water intensive, as the fields usually remained green until mowed and stacked. Ah, the life! Nothing like a big armload of field corn fresh off the stalk and right into the boiling water! Talk about fresh food. We could go out to the garden and pull carrots, radishes and pick peas and beans for the "supper" table as well as "cukes" and tomatoes. We lived in a prime watermelon area, so used to sell those out by the highway for a mere pittance compared to today's prices. It's a mystery how we raised watermelons when some years were so dry, but they did well in the sandhills.

I have never completely understood the water problems in California, as I don't know the history (as I should by now). Anyway, the farmers' markets offer a big part of what we eat in the summer, and the fall crops are great too. California is still the salad bowl of the nation, but others are not aware of the water wars. I wish my neighbor who uses her hose for everything would realize just how wasteful she is. Watered her newly planted trees so much that she had killed nearly half of them already. Their philosophy is that if they have the money to pay the water bill, they can use as much water as they darn please. I still recycle wash water and take GI showers! ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz z z z z z z z z z . . . . . .

[jstru402]

This isn't a huge deal, but it's a small way in which I can work to change things. Local farmers doing the right thing and growing organically and trying to keep their product close to home get my money instead of the mega-marts.



This is exactly what I made reference to in my earlier post. Little contributions by individuals make huge differences in the end. The attitude of, "Oh, what difference in I, just one person, change where I buy my groceries" is what prevents progress.

Community Supported Agriculture (CSAs) are set up all throughout the state. You buy your produce from a farm, that is likely no further than 20 miles from your house, and every month (or twice every month) that food is delivered directly to your house by the farmer, or a volunteer as stated earlier. Some organizations have central pick up locations.

Point is: the opportunity to make a difference is there, people just need to start being that difference they want to see.

[jstru402]

I don't remember alfalfa being so water intensive, as the fields usually remained green until mowed and stacked.
It was green for a reason. It was watered all the time.

But the rest of your post speaks volumes. It speaks of a day when everything was on such a smaller scale. It was subsistence farming. Growing enough to feed the family, or collectively grow enough to feed the immediate community. There aren't many places in this country that cannot pull this off. Everything you eat can be grown in your town. It doesn't need to be shipped from Chile, not even Watsonville for that matter (unless if you live there of course). I just feel that with a lot of things today, including farming, as a species, we are living outside our means. We might not find experience this in today's generation, but as the saying goes, think of the children (or the children's children, or the children's, children's children).

[Reader]

I just feel that with a lot of things today, including farming, as a species, we are living outside our means.

That's why we have irrigation and improved farming practices. Science is a wonderful thing when used properly. I say again .....welcome to being Human... we ARE a keystone species.... We alter our environment to suit our needs. How do you think that we are able to live in EVERY environmental region in the world ?
I also don't see everyone willing to grow their own food.....you would need an acre per person to feed them for a year....talk about urban sprawl....
That would also take time away from their real jobs.....making computers and such. I LOVE capitalism, paying someone to grow my food for me. I like gardening....but I don't want to be a farmer.:doh:

[jstru402]

You're right... Willing? No. Capable? Probably

And humans are not a keystone species. The world would funtion just fine without us. It is unwise to speculate what species we could do without, howver. Like the delta smelt. We won't know how important it was until it's gone.

We probably agree on more thingvthan either of us realize right now. I'll agree to disagree with you on this

[Mac]

...Water rights have been fought over for decades in California and the greater part of the Western US. Nothing is going to change until the approach is changed....
Yeah...change the approach, as in quit building high-density megalopolis cities in the middle of what is essentially a big desert!!!

Californians (especially the southern variety, it seems) have a burning desire to make everything south of Bakersfield into a giant Orange county - tract homes packed on top of each other, a mega-mall in every community, a Starbucks on every street corner and bumper-to-bumper traffic everywhere you go. Cities want the tax base, so they allow greedy developers to come in, buy up every square inch of land and pack homes and strip malls onto it as tightly as they can - then dash off to ruin the next community the same way.

Only problem with the above is that it takes water to run these big cities - lots of water. Golf courses, restaurants, all those lawns on those matchbox homes, all those trendy coffee shops for their choco-mocha-frappe lattes, etc. See, the issue is that most of southern CA is a desert. That means arid, as in little rainfall and no major bodies of water to support the ever-growing need. Now combine that with the fact that our fair state kowtows to every hairy, unbathed, hemp sandal-wearing, granola-crunching, free-thinking tree-hugger that crawls out from under their bridge with an agenda and/or a pet endangered species/plant/animal/microorganism, and you've got the picture of southern California today. The tree-huggers don't always prevail, but they sure tend to get their way when their pet concern happens to match up with somebody's agenda!

Our government and politicians are short-sighted and agenda-driven. They don't see the big picture, all they see are dollar signs - I can only guess it never occurs to them that there's a limit as to how much development is reasonably sustainable in such an environment...or if it does, they just don't care. "Hell, the water will come from somewhere - we'll just pay off the right people and divert it from them there lowly farmers up in that ol' Central Valley!"

For those of you too young to remember, Sam Kinison had it right in one of his stand-up comedy routines - he talked about all the famine and starvation in Africa and said we should stop sending them money and food - we should send them U-Hauls instead, to move all their stuff to somewhere other than the middle of the desert:

"Look...you know what this is?!? Yeah...this is saaaand! You know what it's gonna be a thousand years from now??? IT'S GONNA BE SAAAAND!!! YOU LIVE IN A ****ING DESERT....NOTHING GROWS HERE!!! NOTHING'S GONNA GROW HERE!!! WE HAVE DESERTS IN AMERICA TOO - WE JUST DON'T LIVE IN THEM, A**HOLES!!!!!"Kinda the same principle here....wish ol' Sam was still around to explain to our politicians that you don't build huge cities in the middle of the desert when there's not enough water to support them....and that in the big picture, farmers are a hell of a lot more important to us than manicured greens on the golf courses.