How to Increase Academy Graduation Rates

[23112]

http://libcat.post.ca.gov/dbtw-wpd/documents/cc/40-Aclaro.pdf

This is a pretty interesting read; I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

[BoySergeant]

Interesting read. I would have liked to see a study through at least the first probationary year vs. just Academy time. This may make a better representation of attrition rates for all agencies since the first year is considered still part of the hiring/selection process. Different agencies may push for cuts at different times. For example, right now it seems we are pushing folks though the Academy so we don't lose their "spot." When they get to the field, they quit.

[not5150]

My thoughts

1. Explorer attrition rate in the academy - As a formr explorer, it was a fairly well known fact that explorers do well in the academy (and not just the CHP academy). We just didn't have the numbers to back up that fact.

Explorers get a taste of academy life with mini-academies and I tell you. My CHP explorer academy was tougher than my time at SBSO's academy. Examples

a. Standing in formation for hours - no biggie, done it before
b. Getting yelled at - no biggie, done it before
c. Waking up early and leaving late - Suck it up, done it before will do it again

2. Pushed to the breaking point

I think most people haven't pushed themselves to their limits before reaching the CHP academy or any other police academy. What percentage of the population do you think have really been pushed to the wall physically and mentally? There's a big difference between

a. Going to Bally's for an hour workout and doing non-stop pushups/situps for an hour while three people are yelling at you

It boggled my mind at the SBSO academy that people dropped out like flies during the first day. After just twenty minutes of formation/yelling, people quit. Some were already hired by departments and they quit!!!

Possible solution - Have a weekend "practice academy" as part of the recruiting process. Make it the same hours and some adademy/physical level. If they can make it through the two days, then they continue in the process.

3. Firearms drop out rate

I'd be REAL interested to learn what the breakdown is between male and female recruits. My experience has been (and yes I'm generalizing here) that people with no firearms experience will actually do better than "experienced" shooters. Various explainations have been given, but the most common is that so-called experience people have built-in bad habits and egos that slow down their learning. The veritable, you can't teach an old dog new tricks type of thing.

Possible solution - Roll in some firearms stuff into the mini weekend academy

There's a lot more I could type.. but I'm sick and I need to rest now :)

[highwaybs]

Good read, sounds like the exit surveys need to be done better ...re-contact after a month after some of the stress and emotion is gone...

More mentoring would be good.....this is a new generation and we need to adapt.

I have always thought the Department needs to have non-sworn, Community Service Officer positions. We are able to expose a possible applicant that is under 21 to CHP via the Explorer program (although I do not agree with what they teach, different thread someday).

Imagine, if after the first round of testing you took the cream of the crop and ran them through a short academy and assigned them back to their home areas as a Community Service Officer (They could wear the OWU..lol) where they could be assigned duties and given priority access the Academy after completing so much work experience.

By this time they should have figured out if this is what they want to do as a career versus a job.....and we haven't spent all that money...and we get to actually get to see their work ethic, versus being told about it....

[not5150]

Interesting read. I would have liked to see a study through at least the first probationary year vs. just Academy time. This may make a better representation of attrition rates for all agencies since the first year is considered still part of the hiring/selection process. Different agencies may push for cuts at different times. For example, right now it seems we are pushing folks though the Academy so we don't lose their "spot." When they get to the field, they quit.

I have the feeling that some people have just enough motivation to pass the academy because they are doing it to impress someone else. Or they believe passing the academy was enough accomplishment for their lives.

[LS1CHP]

Interesting read. I would have liked to see a study through at least the first probationary year vs. just Academy time. This may make a better representation of attrition rates for all agencies since the first year is considered still part of the hiring/selection process. Different agencies may push for cuts at different times. For example, right now it seems we are pushing folks though the Academy so we don't lose their "spot." When they get to the field, they quit.

I agree with you. I would want to see a study from academy appointment, till the END of the first year probationary period. Because why people quit is what I would like to know more about.

I honestly believe that people quit during their first year because, they can't put what they learned in the academy onto the streets. Or they didn't realize that this career choice is dangerous, and they treat it like a job than a career. A lot of cops I know say "A week in the academy is not worth a day on the streets." I do not know if that is true or not, but if it is I agree with Highwatbs as well. That the cream of the crop should go out, on some "Community Service Officer" capacity, and get some sort of "feel" for the job or portions their in of it.

By the time they get to the academy, they will be very comfortable with radio codes and not thinking "which on was that?". Or they could participate in stops, help write citations, help with traffic control etc etc.
All of this will give someone a "real world feel" of the job BEFORE they go to the academy. And if the person wants to pursue this career choice, they will have some hands-on experience of what it would be like in "break-in" and after a rookie gets cut loose.

Granted I'm not a cop (not yet at least.. CTC-??? lol), and I may not even make sense, but from someone who has not had any police training, and never joined the explorer's, this is what i would think help cut down on Cadet Attrition.

I GOT BLISTERS ON ME FINGERS!! (Stewie-Family Guy Episode ??)
:lol:

[gabriel]

Aren't ride-a-longs exactly for that purpose? To understand a bit of what the job is about, how dangerous it can be and the duties involved? Isn't that why throughout the hiring process you're asked what kind of research you've done and what actions you've taken to prepare for the career?

If you can't tell that the job is dangerous by the numerous deaths that the law enforcement agency field has incurred over its existance (read: research) then you've got a HUGE problem.

IMHO, most people try out for the LE field because of the lights and sirens, guns, you know the bells and whistles and rarely think about the real aspect of the job. I tend to think the bulk of these people get through the process and get on to go to an academy, what they do after that would just be flat out crazy speculation by me because I have no idea.

[LS1CHP]

Aren't ride-a-longs exactly for that purpose? To understand a bit of what the job is about, how dangerous it can be and the duties involved? Isn't that why throughout the hiring process you're asked what kind of research you've done and what actions you've taken to prepare for the career?

If you can't tell that the job is dangerous by the numerous deaths that the law enforcement agency field has incurred over its existance (read: research) then you've got a HUGE problem.

IMHO, most people try out for the LE field because of the lights and sirens, guns, you know the bells and whistles and rarely think about the real aspect of the job. I tend to think the bulk of these people get through the process and get on to go to an academy, what they do after that would just be flat out crazy speculation by me because I have no idea.

From what I understand, you are an observer in a Ride-along. You don't help out in Traffic Stops, write citations, help conduct DUI Investigation, DUI Checkpoints, read the on-board computer for info while driving and communicating over the radio.

I could be wrong, and I'm sure a CHP Officer will butt in if i am, but all these will help better prepare a Cadet, to do the job and know what is expected when you are on your own.

Some people can take what they learned in the classroom, and apply it in the field. Others learn more by hands-on. It's not that one is better than the other, just maybe some people learn differently than others.
And maybe after a month or so of doing this, a Cadet says "Hey, this is not for me. I can't do this." That way maybe you have already "weeded out" the ones that don't want to do it, verses the ones that do, without sending them to the academy and wasting valuable dollars, in this economic crisis.

I'm not saying its the answer, just a thought. Or a "what if?", that can be dissected for constructive argument.

[ThePacing1]

Aren't ride-a-longs exactly for that purpose? To understand a bit of what the job is about, how dangerous it can be and the duties involved? Isn't that why throughout the hiring process you're asked what kind of research you've done and what actions you've taken to prepare for the career?

If you can't tell that the job is dangerous by the numerous deaths that the law enforcement agency field has incurred over its existance (read: research) then you've got a HUGE problem.

IMHO, most people try out for the LE field because of the lights and sirens, guns, you know the bells and whistles and rarely think about the real aspect of the job. I tend to think the bulk of these people get through the process and get on to go to an academy, what they do after that would just be flat out crazy speculation by me because I have no idea.

I have to agree about ride-alongs. I just passed my QAP and up to this point in my process, I have completed 4 ride alongs at various offices. Every single ride out taught me something different about the duties and "life" ofa chp officer. As mentioned before, people get into LE just for the lights, sirens, guns, kickin in doors and shooting the bad guy. I felt bad for my last officer on my ride-along because the day before me he had taken about four crashes and had to do paper on it. The last two and a half hours of my ride along, we found a nice shaddy spot under a tree and he finished up his reports. What I came to realize was that this was awesome because I was able to see the glitz and the not so glamor of the job. However, my officer was cool enough to let me help him on his reports that I felt more like his partner than a student.

All in all, if people want to succeed in the academy and outside on the streets; they will do whatever it takes beforehand to do the neccessary research to prevent failure. At least, thats what I have done and in time I hope to be successful and not be another statistic as a "drop-out".

[ThePacing1]

From what I understand, you are an observer in a Ride-along. You don't help out in Traffic Stops, write citations, help conduct DUI Investigation, DUI Checkpoints, read the on-board computer for info while driving and communicating over the radio.

I could be wrong, and I'm sure a CHP Officer will butt in if i am, but all these will help better prepare a Cadet, to do the job and know what is expected when you are on your own.

Some people can take what they learned in the classroom, and apply it in the field. Others learn more by hands-on. It's not that one is better than the other, just maybe some people learn differently than others.
And maybe after a month or so of doing this, a Cadet says "Hey, this is not for me. I can't do this." That way maybe you have already "weeded out" the ones that don't want to do it, verses the ones that do, without sending them to the academy and wasting valuable dollars, in this economic crisis.

I'm not saying its the answer, just a thought. Or a "what if?", that can be dissected for constructive argument.

By your comments I can see that you have yet to go on a ride along. It was the most amazing experience of my life! I have been on 4 so far, at one ride along towards the end of the shift, my officer was allowing me to write tickets (of course he wold sign it and give it to the driver), fill out the impound paperwork (vehicle inventory), assist with a DUI arrest we had(total hook and book time 4 hrs!!), type in vehicle plates to pull up the neccessary info, etc. When I asked him why he was letting me do these things, he simply responded by saying, "Well, your here to become a CHP officer right?, why not get started now". I couldn't agree more.

I highly suggest a ride-along. It will open your eyes to the CHP and allow you to know if its right for you. Good luck.

[jflip2002]

I have one buddy who is in LE for the "macho" side of it, controlling situations, nabbing the bad guys, kicking in doors, etc. He seems to have a nice outlook on his career, and seems to enjoy it for the most part. He speaks so highly of the "team" atmosphere around the entire department. But he has a few screws loose, and I question his sanity at points, lol.

In my one ride along with a real cool officer here in SLO, he was a great guy. He was preaching how he didn't make his career his LIFE. He didn't identify himself with the fact that he has such a high responsibility career. He says its a great career, with great benefits, but hes there for the reason everyone else is.... the pay, benefits, and retirement. He seemed to have a real sense of pride in his career, though not an extremist point of view. I was able to do a see the typical day on the job as a CHP officer, and got to write a ticket (for the offense I got to pick out lol).

I think the proposal for a "practice" academy would be a positive thing. It'd definitely weed out the weaker who do not truly want to be there. There are many people who view law enforcement like they do corrections, which is just a good paying job, without the need of spending years in college.

I dont know where Im going with this, besides just giving my point of view. That was a good read, though.

[LS1CHP]

By your comments I can see that you have yet to go on a ride along. It was the most amazing experience of my life! I have been on 4 so far, at one ride along towards the end of the shift, my officer was allowing me to write tickets (of course he wold sign it and give it to the driver), fill out the impound paperwork (vehicle inventory), assist with a DUI arrest we had(total hook and book time 4 hrs!!), type in vehicle plates to pull up the neccessary info, etc. When I asked him why he was letting me do these things, he simply responded by saying, "Well, your here to become a CHP officer right?, why not get started now". I couldn't agree more.

I highly suggest a ride-along. It will open your eyes to the CHP and allow you to know if its right for you. Good luck.

I have been on a ride-a-long, but never with the CHP. I am in the process, so after I pass the written test, I plan on taking the letter stating I passed to the nearest CHP Station and take the next available Ride-a-Long.

See that is what I was hoping would happen on the Ride-a-Long. The Officer involved allows you to experience things (as safely as possible.)

[not5150]

As someone who has taken TONs of ride-alongs, I'll chime in. Mainly you get to see law enforcement from a non-responsibility viewpoint. It's great exposure to police work and enforcement, but I don't think it REALLY shows you how dangerous things can be (unless something extremely dangerous happens).

I think it needs to be like red asphalt. Have a mini-academy where you spend 1-2 hours watching videos of officers getting into horrendous fights, shootouts and just bad stuff. Surviving Edged Weapons comes to mind.

When I was an explorer, a bunch of training VCR tapes were left in the briefing room. I asked if I could take them home and the sergeant agreed. The tapes had video reenactments of CHP officers being seriously injured, hurt or killed. Example, a motor office getting attacked by a hammer wielding guy on the freeway.

I got sick to my stomach watching some of those videos and I think the sergeant knew that was going to happen. When I brought them back to the station, he asked, "Do you still want to go into law enforcement?"

I think recruits should be exposed to that type of "shock treatment" early in the process to weed them out.

[Kevin]

type in vehicle plates to pull up the neccessary info, etc..

No good deed goes unpunished, just what an officer needs, a ride along spilling the beans on the internet. You being a ride along civilian have no right to know NOR need to know when it comes to CLETS info, the officer that allowed you to do that should know that it's a violation.

[Vinnie]

Was the subject addressed anywhere about kids that go through our "free" Academy just to defect to another Department? Maybe the Academy could just stick the defectors with a $100K invoice upon separation...

[alexfarrington]

I thought it was a great read with some compelling proposals.

The truth of the matter is, as the report acknowledged, that it will not be easy to lower the current attrition rate so significantly when probably 80% (give or take) of the current cadets and potential cadets come from the (awesome) Entitlement Generation.

A kid that still lives at home, got trophies for being on the last place baseball team, and has never mowed a lawn on a hot July evening because it might hurt his feelings is gonna have a hard time adapting to a strict, paramilitary environment. If the kid has never been yelled at or disciplined by a parent/teacher/coach, it's gonna be a little bit of culture shock when it comes time to report to the Academy.

Impossible? Not at all. But it's probably gonna take a lot of blood, sweat & tears to make it happen.

It is reassuring to read that the CHP is very aware of the attrition issue and, more importantly, is trying to lay the groundwork to significantly reduce it. I also thought it was interesting that the RCMP was mentioned prominently throughout the report, as the two agencies are arguably the two most respected law enforcement agencies on the continent, if not the planet.

[not5150]

Was the subject addressed anywhere about kids that go through our "free" Academy just to defect to another Department? Maybe the Academy could just stick the defectors with a $100K invoice upon separation...

I believe LAPD started charging people a pro-rated rate for doing just that. Started after someone graduated and immediately quit for San Marino PD.

[Kevin]

Improving the graduation rate may require the lowering of standards. CA POST requires a certain minimum number of hours, along with the 42 LDs, scenario testing, EVOC, firearms, first aid/cpr, etc...

My agency (SFPD) recently lowered the academy curriculum from 32 weeks to 27 weeks, which I vehemently opposed.

The academy serves a dual purpose. Besides educating the recruits on police procedures & tactics, instilling discipline, lifetime physical fitness, the academy is also a part of the testing process to weed out the undesirables. Not everyone can do this job.

I recall a class that had an attrition rate of over 50% a few years back, half failed the academy, and the other half either failed FTO, or was released during probation.

A better suggestion would be to be more selective in the hiring process, offer a one week intense pre-academy that for those who made it through the entire process and into the hiring pool, it's easy to identify and eliminate the non-hackers off the bat.

I never understood the selfish recruits that would quit their first day, why waste everyone's time by going through the entire testing process? The time and expense wasted could have been spent on someone else that was serious about the position.

Lowering standards will lead to more financial liabilities down the road.

[gabriel]

Was the subject addressed anywhere about kids that go through our "free" Academy just to defect to another Department? Maybe the Academy could just stick the defectors with a $100K invoice upon separation...

I 100% agree. May be not 100k but at a very minimum charge for the POST certification if they leave.

As someone who has taken TONs of ride-alongs, I'll chime in. Mainly you get to see law enforcement from a non-responsibility viewpoint. It's great exposure to police work and enforcement, but I don't think it REALLY shows you how dangerous things can be (unless something extremely dangerous happens).


So going to www.odmp.org isn't enough? Reading all the stories of Law Enforcement tragedies isn't enough for someone to grasp the fact that the job is inherently dangerous? I understand your point, but the closest you'll get to understanding the dangers behind it without putting your life at risk during a 'mini-academy' or some other similar situation is to go on a ride-along and see that Officer pull up with his hand on his weapon while vehicles pass at 70+MPH not knowing if the driver just robbed a bank.


I think it needs to be like red asphalt. Have a mini-academy where you spend 1-2 hours watching videos of officers getting into horrendous fights, shootouts and just bad stuff. Surviving Edged Weapons comes to mind.

When I was an explorer, a bunch of training VCR tapes were left in the briefing room. I asked if I could take them home and the sergeant agreed. The tapes had video reenactments of CHP officers being seriously injured, hurt or killed. Example, a motor office getting attacked by a hammer wielding guy on the freeway.

I got sick to my stomach watching some of those videos and I think the sergeant knew that was going to happen. When I brought them back to the station, he asked, "Do you still want to go into law enforcement?"

I think recruits should be exposed to that type of "shock treatment" early in the process to weed them out.

I agree, perhaps this should be part of the Orientations, but what do I know? I'm just a civilian.

From what I understand, you are an observer in a Ride-along. You don't help out in Traffic Stops, write citations, help conduct DUI Investigation, DUI Checkpoints, read the on-board computer for info while driving and communicating over the radio.

I could be wrong, and I'm sure a CHP Officer will butt in if i am, but all these will help better prepare a Cadet, to do the job and know what is expected when you are on your own.

Some people can take what they learned in the classroom, and apply it in the field. Others learn more by hands-on. It's not that one is better than the other, just maybe some people learn differently than others.

And maybe after a month or so of doing this, a Cadet says "Hey, this is not for me. I can't do this." That way maybe you have already "weeded out" the ones that don't want to do it, verses the ones that do, without sending them to the academy and wasting valuable dollars, in this economic crisis.

I'm not saying its the answer, just a thought. Or a "what if?", that can be dissected for constructive argument.

So EVOC, the stop scenarios, PT and all the tactical hands-on stuff that cadets are put through is for what? I mean, you're firing a weapon in a range, one has to understand that during one's career there may be a potential that the think you're firing at is not going to be a paper (or whatever they're made of nowadays) target but some crazy bank robber or drugged out dude on PCP.

I'm just sayin'... :noidea:

[not5150]

Reading odmp isn't going to make you understand the dangers of the job. There is intellectual understanding and a visceral understanding - visceral as in crap, my ticket could be punched like this.



I mean, you're firing a weapon in a range, one has to understand that during one's career there may be a potential that the think you're firing at is not going to be a paper


Nope, I'm guessing a lot of people don't understand the dangers even with all the scenarios and range time. That's procedural stuff... designed to make you go on autopilot when the crap hits the fan.

Here's a scenario that would be a very valid valuable training option (and many academies do it). Have the trainee wear a gun belt with a red gun.. have him/her try to handcuff another trainee. But here's the trick, the "suspect" must do everything in their power to not get cuffed. Plus, the criminal gets extra points if they can get the gun and say "bang".

No time limit... it ends when either suspect is cuffed or you're shot. It is INSANELY difficult to cuff someone if they truly don't want to get cuffed. I was amazed at people who just gave up... stopped in the middle of this and basically asked for a timeout. I've also seen people get "shot" during the scenario and just sit there stunned for a couple minutes. No doubt, the reality was setting in for them.

Shooting at paper targets and doing felony stops doesn't have the same impact.

[gabriel]

Shooting at paper targets and doing felony stops doesn't have the same impact.

I'm going to go ahead and say that it all seems to be pointing towards the individual and leave it at that.

ETA: I stand by what I said, if going through the academy isn't enough to give you that 'real feeling' ...

[not5150]

Fleshing out the preacademy idea

Short term shock is the name of the game... one week long might be too insane. Have it start friday night and go until sunday night.

Perhaps have two locations, one at the actual CHP academy and the other in Southern California.

Make this a mandatory step in hiring with exemptions given to
1. Former military - they already went through boot camp
2. People who have already done a pre-academy (maybe a retread from a previous academy)
3. Graduates of a regional police academy or holders of a POST certificate

Hold nothing back in this academy

Same level of screaming, standing in formation, physical training and academics. Throw in some shooting and video "shock therapy" on top of that.

Take recent graduates of the regular academy and have them help as assistant instructors for the pre-academy.

Granted, nothing will lower the attrition rate to zero, but this should weed out a lot of people.

[AEE]

"I GOT BLISTERS ON ME FINGERS!! (Stewie-Family Guy Episode ??)"

Didn't Ringo Starr say this at the end of Helter Skelter (White Album) in 1968?

[SB 405]

"I GOT BLISTERS ON ME FINGERS!! (Stewie-Family Guy Episode ??)"

Didn't Ringo Starr say this at the end of Helter Skelter (White Album) in 1968?

I believe it was John Lennon

[jflip2002]

Was the subject addressed anywhere about kids that go through our "free" Academy just to defect to another Department? Maybe the Academy could just stick the defectors with a $100K invoice upon separation...

I didnt know you could LEGALLY do that. I thought once you were sponsored to go into any academy, you were legally binded to join that agency that sponsored you for X amount of time. Maybe its just a moral issue, but I know a buddy of mine said he has to wait a couple years before he can transfer to another PD, since his current one paid his way through the academy.

[LS1CHP]

"I GOT BLISTERS ON ME FINGERS!! (Stewie-Family Guy Episode ??)"

Didn't Ringo Starr say this at the end of Helter Skelter (White Album) in 1968?

I don't know. That's where I know it from.

[G-Man]

I believe LAPD started charging people a pro-rated rate for doing just that. Started after someone graduated and immediately quit for San Marino PD.

LAPD does that only after you complete the Academy and then transfer to another Department. Their's is $50,000 prorated over 60 months.

[highwaybs]

I didnt know you could LEGALLY do that. I thought once you were sponsored to go into any academy, you were legally binded to join that agency that sponsored you for X amount of time. Maybe its just a moral issue, but I know a buddy of mine said he has to wait a couple years before he can transfer to another PD, since his current one paid his way through the academy.


LAPD does that they give you a payback schedule, I don't recall how many years of service you commit to them before you arte off the hook

[Eagl5]

I know how, stop hiring losers and wanna be officers who have no freaking clue what this job entails. Who think that because they went on ride alongs they know this job and are ready for it. IMHO, we should not be hiring anybody who lives with mommy and daddy still, has no job, and has only had a few college classes but no degree. But we do...oh hell what do I care anymore.

[not5150]

Are there any stats on when people quit/leave the academy? I'm sure some can be inferred from the driving, firearms and test failures, but what about people quitting in the first weeks (even the first day :shock:).

Also, I wonder how many people accept the academy offer and just don't show up. I would hope it's a very small number.

[AyatollahGondola]

IMHO, we should not be hiring anybody who lives with mommy and daddy still.

Maybe you're right. It's probably time I put 'em in the old folks home and let them fend for themselves on SS.

[quaylie]

Also, I wonder how many people accept the academy offer and just don't show up. I would hope it's a very small number.

I believe CTC I-09 had three of those.:doh:

[Fire1]

I happened to be up at the academy for motor school this week and got to be here for academy pick up week. How embarrassing:shock:. On friday we saw them doing the pork (oh wait, challenge )run. Some of those cadets were almost walking and they had done less than a mile. I thought it was pounded into my head before i went through, your going to have to run 4-5 miles a day at a 8 min pace or better before you go, do x number or situps and pushups and whatnot. When I showed up, I was able to hang with the PT staff through everything and it was no big deal. Out of our class 35 left, but only 5 were actually forced to leave. Ride alongs are great, but only show you a small part of the job. Sure you see a few 11-82's, write some tags, and maybe hook someone. That is all well and good, but it does nothing to show your intestinal fortitude for being able to handle stress, manage time and multiple tasks, judgement and personal dedication, and overall motivation. While i'm not a 100% for the explorer idea, something like that can give some the experience needed to help show if they have what it takes to get through the academy and on to the road.

[emcviper]

Aren't ride-a-longs exactly for that purpose? To understand a bit of what the job is about, how dangerous it can be and the duties involved? Isn't that why throughout the hiring process you're asked what kind of research you've done and what actions you've taken to prepare for the career.
I wish ride-a-longs weren't so hard to come by in Valley. 3 offices never returned my calls, 1 office that's a little further away gave me grief for not going to my local office, but relented and gave me 1. We were told that because it's so tight, we were discouraged from requesting a 2nd ride-along in order to give others a chance. Fortunately, I did several with other agencies, and know with absolute certainty that this is what I will be doing for a living. It might serve others well, though.

[jflip2002]

I know how, stop hiring losers and wanna be officers who have no freaking clue what this job entails. Who think that because they went on ride alongs they know this job and are ready for it. IMHO, we should not be hiring anybody who lives with mommy and daddy still, has no job, and has only had a few college classes but no degree. But we do...oh hell what do I care anymore.

Thats a little harsh there, sir. I dont think the majority of those interested in this career know what the job REALLY entails. You can go on ride alongs, and read forums, and REAL officers will say you still dont know. It seems the only way to REALLY know what the career entails is by actual experience. Also, if by "living with mommy and daddy", you mean younger kids, thats probably fair. I guess if you can not be financially responsible for your living, you are probably not responsible enough to become a LEO.

As for being unemployed, I would have to disagree. I currently have no job (recently laid off), and that's a growing problem with many individuals. Because someone has come across an unfortunate event, that is a little unfair to disregard their desire to be a CHP officer, isnt it? I understand there are different levels of individuals who dont have jobs, like the guy who got laid off vs. the guy who milks the system AND lives at home with mom.

I know a lot of idiots who are in some of the same classes as I am. Most are just younger kids who live with mom and dad, and have the means to go to school full time. It is a little more difficult when you have to work full time to support yourself, and go to school part time. I know some incredibly bright individuals who have forgone college; Id trust them with the safety of the public over some of these kids who have a degree in photography. In fact, the CHP officer I did a ride along with actually worked at a donut shop, and went on to become a CHP officer. So that stipulation seems to be a little unfair. I only have 30 units of college credits, so I guess I should not be considered :noidea:

[Eagl5]

Thats a little harsh there, sir. I dont think the majority of those interested in this career know what the job REALLY entails. You can go on ride alongs, and read forums, and REAL officers will say you still dont know. It seems the only way to REALLY know what the career entails is by actual experience. Also, if by "living with mommy and daddy", you mean younger kids, thats probably fair. I guess if you can not be financially responsible for your living, you are probably not responsible enough to become a LEO.

As for being unemployed, I would have to disagree. I currently have no job (recently laid off), and that's a growing problem with many individuals. Because someone has come across an unfortunate event, that is a little unfair to disregard their desire to be a CHP officer, isnt it? I understand there are different levels of individuals who dont have jobs, like the guy who got laid off vs. the guy who milks the system AND lives at home with mom.

I know a lot of idiots who are in some of the same classes as I am. Most are just younger kids who live with mom and dad, and have the means to go to school full time. It is a little more difficult when you have to work full time to support yourself, and go to school part time. I know some incredibly bright individuals who have forgone college; Id trust them with the safety of the public over some of these kids who have a degree in photography. In fact, the CHP officer I did a ride along with actually worked at a donut shop, and went on to become a CHP officer. So that stipulation seems to be a little unfair. I only have 30 units of college credits, so I guess I should not be considered :noidea:

Thats not harsh, thats reality. I know of applicants who live with their parents and who do not make it through the academy because they have no life experiance, or have been laid off over a year ago and have done nothing in the way of getting a new job or looking for work. They expect to roll into the CHP and be handed a gun and badge. I for one would rather have an officer who was in the military, or went to college or lived on their own, those are the ones who understand what life is about not the ones who live with their parents and play Xbox all day and whine about how tough the job market is and how they can not find a job. If someone gets laid off and does nothing to get another job, I do not respect them and I do not think they deserve a spot. Not to mention how much maturity does that show? Life is not easy, we learn from our mistakes and I respect someone a hell of a lot more if they got laid off but went right out and got another job, even if it is for less money then they might have been making. That shows they have determination and won't quit if things get tough. I do not like people who come on this job and expect it to be handed to them...and believe me from experiance there are a lot of applicants out there like that. And I really dont care if someone went to college, did not go to college, worked in a donut shop or whatever. It is an applicants responsibility to know what they are getting into, when I came on this job, I had none of these website forums, etc...to get information from, I got it from talking to officers and researching the job. So if someone goes to the academy and quits becasue its too hard or this job is not for them then WAHHHHHHH, good riddence and good bye.

[jflip2002]

Thats not harsh, thats reality. I know of applicants who live with their parents and who do not make it through the academy because they have no life experiance, or have been laid off over a year ago and have done nothing in the way of getting a new job or looking for work. They expect to roll into the CHP and be handed a gun and badge. I for one would rather have an officer who was in the military, or went to college or lived on their own, those are the ones who understand what life is about not the ones who live with their parents and play Xbox all day and whine about how tough the job market is and how they can not find a job. If someone gets laid off and does nothing to get another job, I do not respect them and I do not think they deserve a spot. Not to mention how much maturity does that show? Life is not easy, we learn from our mistakes and I respect someone a hell of a lot more if they got laid off but went right out and got another job, even if it is for less money then they might have been making. That shows they have determination and won't quit if things get tough. I do not like people who come on this job and expect it to be handed to them...and believe me from experiance there are a lot of applicants out there like that. And I really dont care if someone went to college, did not go to college, worked in a donut shop or whatever. It is an applicants responsibility to know what they are getting into, when I came on this job, I had none of these website forums, etc...to get information from, I got it from talking to officers and researching the job. So if someone goes to the academy and quits becasue its too hard or this job is not for them then WAHHHHHHH, good riddence and good bye.

I can understand that, I respect and echo those feelings. It just seemed like a few broad statements initially, covering a WIDE variety of people. I think it depends on the person's character, obviously.

[not5150]

To the officers in the field,

Did you get the sense that some people quit the academy/fail break-in because they expected the job to be all cops and robbers type stuff?

Were they unprepared for all the hours of report writing and mind-numbing court room testifying/waiting?

Related note - I've noticed this at my current job where it's REALLY hard to find people that write well. I mean it's a challenge to find people who can write just one sentence with complete punctuation and grammar.

I remember when I was an Explorer and seeing the new guys get ALL the reports. "Oh, you got a deuce, give it to the new guy. TC, new guy. Hit and Run, new guy." I remember thinking - poor dude - but looking back, I can see the value in that.

[CHIPY55]

Thats not harsh, thats reality. I know of applicants who live with their parents and who do not make it through the academy because they have no life experiance, or have been laid off over a year ago and have done nothing in the way of getting a new job or looking for work. They expect to roll into the CHP and be handed a gun and badge. I for one would rather have an officer who was in the military, or went to college or lived on their own, those are the ones who understand what life is about not the ones who live with their parents and play Xbox all day and whine about how tough the job market is and how they can not find a job. If someone gets laid off and does nothing to get another job, I do not respect them and I do not think they deserve a spot. Not to mention how much maturity does that show? Life is not easy, we learn from our mistakes and I respect someone a hell of a lot more if they got laid off but went right out and got another job, even if it is for less money then they might have been making. That shows they have determination and won't quit if things get tough. I do not like people who come on this job and expect it to be handed to them...and believe me from experiance there are a lot of applicants out there like that. And I really dont care if someone went to college, did not go to college, worked in a donut shop or whatever. It is an applicants responsibility to know what they are getting into, when I came on this job, I had none of these website forums, etc...to get information from, I got it from talking to officers and researching the job. So if someone goes to the academy and quits becasue its too hard or this job is not for them then WAHHHHHHH, good riddence and good bye.
You really hit it hard here sir. I can relate to this as a college student.

Waking up early for political science class. Staying in class for four hours, discovering I have a five page paper due in two days. Shortly after class, I have to be at work for a eight hour shift to close shop at 2300 hours. Then, my manager calls me and ask me to be back at work eight hours after my close because someone called in sick. After only a few hours of sleep, i'm back at work doing my thing during the morning rush. After work, I have the nerve to go out and run 3 miles around the rosebowl, with a 20 minute session of calisthenics. By the time I get home, it's already 1800 hours. Time to start my paper!! I'm up untill about 0100 hours proofreading it. Another short night of sleep, then back to class and start this all over again.

I can say that after my freshman year, I adjusted to this lifestyle real well. Although when times get tough, I think about what would happen down the road the during my backround process if I slack off now. I speak to officers at my job everyday (BTW-I work at starbucks :biggrin:), and every one of them tell me to hang in there because the benefits of this are very rewarding.

[RodeoChippie]

IMHO, we should not be hiring anybody who lives with mommy and daddy still, has no job, and has only had a few college classes but no degree. But we do...oh hell what do I care anymore.

Glad that wasn't the case when I got hired 23 years ago. :rolleyes:

[LS1CHP]

You really hit it hard here sir. I can relate to this as a college student.

Waking up early for political science class. Staying in class for four hours, discovering I have a five page paper due in two days. Shortly after class, I have to be at work for a eight hour shift to close shop at 2300 hours. Then, my manager calls me and ask me to be back at work eight hours after my close because someone called in sick. After only a few hours of sleep, i'm back at work doing my thing during the morning rush. After work, I have the nerve to go out and run 3 miles around the rosebowl, with a 20 minute session of calisthenics. By the time I get home, it's already 1800 hours. Time to start my paper!! I'm up untill about 0100 hours proofreading it. Another short night of sleep, then back to class and start this all over again.

I can say that after my freshman year, I adjusted to this lifestyle real well. Although when times get tough, I think about what would happen down the road the during my backround process if I slack off now. I speak to officers at my job everyday (BTW-I work at starbucks :biggrin:), and every one of them tell me to hang in there because the benefits of this are very rewarding.
Someone shares my pain:biggrin:. Hey at least you have a job. I'm running out of money, so gotta sell the Trans Am:sad::sad::sad:.

[LS1CHP]

Thats not harsh, thats reality. I know of applicants who live with their parents and who do not make it through the academy because they have no life experiance, or have been laid off over a year ago and have done nothing in the way of getting a new job or looking for work. They expect to roll into the CHP and be handed a gun and badge. I for one would rather have an officer who was in the military, or went to college or lived on their own, those are the ones who understand what life is about not the ones who live with their parents and play Xbox all day and whine about how tough the job market is and how they can not find a job. If someone gets laid off and does nothing to get another job, I do not respect them and I do not think they deserve a spot. Not to mention how much maturity does that show? Life is not easy, we learn from our mistakes and I respect someone a hell of a lot more if they got laid off but went right out and got another job, even if it is for less money then they might have been making. That shows they have determination and won't quit if things get tough. I do not like people who come on this job and expect it to be handed to them...and believe me from experiance there are a lot of applicants out there like that. And I really dont care if someone went to college, did not go to college, worked in a donut shop or whatever. It is an applicants responsibility to know what they are getting into, when I came on this job, I had none of these website forums, etc...to get information from, I got it from talking to officers and researching the job. So if someone goes to the academy and quits becasue its too hard or this job is not for them then WAHHHHHHH, good riddence and good bye.
I agree with you. BUT a lot of people that put themselves through college have had many jobs. There will be people that come on here and say "I've had one job and put myself through college, all while living by myself and never using my credit. All the while that one job was so flexible whenever my class days and times changed from quarter to quarter or semester to semester, they still were able to change the COMPANY for me." Don't buy it. Every single male or female that I know that but themselves through college went to hell and back. For what? The belief that the degree that says you graduated in ????, from this University will net you a decent job. Now according to you that's the type of people that you want in the academy right? But a lot of guys and girls that went fit your description, are being turned down. Why? Because they were late on a credit card or car note payment. Or they might have charged off a account. Is it an excuse HELL NO. But you make mistakes you learn from them.

So i don't think it's fair to say you don't respect someone because he/she cannot find a job. No disrespect but you sir have a job. A very decent job. Respect is earned, not taken for face value. Maybe his life experience is 10x more difficult than you or I, to get to this point he is at now (college, a home etc etc) or would you still not respect him because he cannot find a job, to put himself through college, pay his rent, feed his children if he has any, pay his bills, but he still has a desire to CHP! I'm pretty sure he will find a way. A lot of us college students got this far, so for him having 30 units he has a long way to go. Hang in there, your gonna want to throw your textbook at your professor later down the line, but don't it gets easier.

A lot of us are determined people, that don't quit, or else we would be called College dropouts, and have held many jobs, lived on our own, no assistance from our parents because they live check to check too, and may have burned through some credit cards or whatever. Why? Because a degree will net you a decent job and career.

But when its time to apply and you put down all the jobs you have and some credit flaws your not hired. Every case is different, and everything can be explained. No excuses just action.

Have a great day!:biggrin:

[Eagl5]

I agree with you. BUT a lot of people that put themselves through college have had many jobs. There will be people that come on here and say "I've had one job and put myself through college, all while living by myself and never using my credit. All the while that one job was so flexible whenever my class days and times changed from quarter to quarter or semester to semester, they still were able to change the COMPANY for me." Don't buy it. Every single male or female that I know that but themselves through college went to hell and back. For what? The belief that the degree that says you graduated in ????, from this University will net you a decent job. Now according to you that's the type of people that you want in the academy right? But a lot of guys and girls that went fit your description, are being turned down. Why? Because they were late on a credit card or car note payment. Or they might have charged off a account. Is it an excuse HELL NO. But you make mistakes you learn from them.

So i don't think it's fair to say you don't respect someone because he/she cannot find a job. No disrespect but you sir have a job. A very decent job. Respect is earned, not taken for face value. Maybe his life experience is 10x more difficult than you or I, to get to this point he is at now (college, a home etc etc) or would you still not respect him because he cannot find a job, to put himself through college, pay his rent, feed his children if he has any, pay his bills, but he still has a desire to CHP! I'm pretty sure he will find a way. A lot of us college students got this far, so for him having 30 units he has a long way to go. Hang in there, your gonna want to throw your textbook at your professor later down the line, but don't it gets easier.

A lot of us are determined people, that don't quit, or else we would be called College dropouts, and have held many jobs, lived on our own, no assistance from our parents because they live check to check too, and may have burned through some credit cards or whatever. Why? Because a degree will net you a decent job and career.

But when its time to apply and you put down all the jobs you have and some credit flaws your not hired. Every case is different, and everything can be explained. No excuses just action.

Have a great day!:biggrin:

You have no clue why people get turned down in the background process, in my 3+ years of doing backgrounds, I have never turned anybody down for late credit card or car payments, so before you go off claiming you know why people get disqualified take a minute and think and if you don't know why somebody gets dq'd then don't say anything. Additionally, I could care less if someone went to college or not, that does not make someone great for this job because he or she went to college. The best Applicans I have had were the ones who were in the military or college or both and had a job. What I am saying is the people who do not have a job and claim they were laid off and since that time have not done anything to get a job are not that motivated and I would not want to work with someone who has no desire to motivate themselves to do something. If I lost this job tomorrow, I would go right out and find a job, if its not glamourous or does not pay me money like I earn now so be it, it would be more important to me to find a job and help my family even if it means having 2 or 3 jobs. But thats the difference between officers who are good workers and officers who want things handed to them. According to you every case is different, and thats true, but not everything can be explained as you claim and sometimes the explanations are what does people in.......

[LS1CHP]

You have no clue why people get turned down in the background process, in my 3+ years of doing backgrounds, I have never turned anybody down for late credit card or car payments, so before you go off claiming you know why people get disqualified take a minute and think and if you don't know why somebody gets dq'd then don't say anything. Additionally, I could care less if someone went to college or not, that does not make someone great for this job because he or she went to college. The best Applicans I have had were the ones who were in the military or college or both and had a job. What I am saying is the people who do not have a job and claim they were laid off and since that time have not done anything to get a job are not that motivated and I would not want to work with someone who has no desire to motivate themselves to do something. If I lost this job tomorrow, I would go right out and find a job, if its not glamourous or does not pay me money like I earn now so be it, it would be more important to me to find a job and help my family even if it means having 2 or 3 jobs. But thats the difference between officers who are good workers and officers who want things handed to them. According to you every case is different, and thats true, but not everything can be explained as you claim and sometimes the explanations are what does people in.......

I do understand what you are saying, and I don't know why all the dq'd people get dq'd. I will only list the ones I know.
Without saying any names, 4 people, 2 from the West LA area, 1 from Bakersfield, 1 from Hemet all got DQ'D for the the same reason. Financial matters. All except the Hemet applicant lived on their own from age 18. All have held various jobs to help them through college.
Now I do know 2 applicants who got Dq'd for not passing the phisical. 1 was discoverd to have a heart murmur, the other broke his arm and said "the doctors didn't feel I could safley participate in The Academy."
Those 2 applicants lived with their parent's never went to school, and never really had to work. But yet they got farther than the others with "life experience."
My point is, the applicants that the majority of LE agencies are looking for are hard working, never give up, don't quit, accountability, and integrity right? Most of those people go through $@&* to smell the flower let alone taste the honey. But can't seem to pass the B.I. process because of thier determination to stay in school and have a summer job here or there. Or maybe they had to burn a credit card to pay for books or what not.

In the end we both do want to work with, people who are determined and don't give up. At the same time, these are the ones with the most checkered job history and financial history. No I do not know all the reasons people get DQ'D, I can only state the ones I know. I'm not going against you, I just want to clarify some things thats all. I'm pretty sure that you do get alot of people who apply for the CHP and just see the position as a means to an end. More often than not.
And getting to the root of things, the people that get weeded out in the academy just can't do it.nothing more nothing less. The people that leave during PROBATION, saw what the job entails and figuerd out that they don't want to do it. Some people you can tell them what the job is, over and over again, and they still won't understand untill they are, phisically and emotionaly there at the scene or giving Traffic citations. They might have thought they can do it, but in the end they can't, or don't want to do it the rest of their lives.

Sorry for the rant:lol:

Have a Good Day:cool:

[redhead]

LS1,

As someone who has been in the process before and for a while, I will offer this as a suggestion.

Listen.

This forum works well when Officers speak and applicants listen. Spouting off about 4 randoms that didn't make it through might discourage someone who should try but doesn't due to what you posted.

Good luck in the process.

[retchp]

Twice on this thread I have seen the phrase "burned a credit card". . .that is just another way to say "stole moneyfrom the bank". If you "burn a credit card" with no intent to pay for it you are a thief. Last I looked CHP didn't look kindly on that. Now, go ahead and correct me too.

[LS1CHP]

LS1,

As someone who has been in the process before and for a while, I will offer this as a suggestion.

Listen.

This forum works well when Officers speak and applicants listen. Spouting off about 4 randoms that didn't make it through might discourage someone who should try but doesn't due to what you posted.

Good luck in the process.

Every case is different. Nobody should be discouraged from trying. I do listen, and take all advices, suggestions, and procedures given. But if I don't agree with something I do suggest an alternative point of view for constructive discussion.
Thank you
Have a good day.

[not5150]

Wasn't this thread about increasing academy retention rates?

I think it's agreed that academy standards should never be lowered to increase the number of grads.

Do you guys think the academic failures could be solved by mandating at least a two-year associates degree for new hires? Or would that just kill the applicant pool?

I know of several departments in the Bay Area and Orange County (Irvine I think) that require a Bachelors for new hires. But to me that seems to be overkill and besides, having a degree does not guarantee someone can write.

For the firearms failures, does it boil down to people just not learning how to shoot? Or is it people who thought they could shoot and then suddenly found out they suck?

[LS1CHP]

Twice on this thread I have seen the phrase "burned a credit card". . .that is just another way to say "stole moneyfrom the bank". If you "burn a credit card" with no intent to pay for it you are a thief. Last I looked CHP didn't look kindly on that. Now, go ahead and correct me too.

Sorry bad choice of words. Did not pay the balance of the credit card is what I am trying to say.

[LS1CHP]

Wasn't this thread about increasing academy retention rates?

I think it's agreed that academy standards should never be lowered to increase the number of grads.

Do you guys think the academic failures could be solved by mandating at least a two-year associates degree for new hires? Or would that just kill the applicant pool?

I know of several departments in the Bay Area and Orange County (Irvine I think) that require a Bachelors for new hires. But to me that seems to be overkill and besides, having a degree does not guarantee someone can write.

For the firearms failures, does it boil down to people just not learning how to shoot? Or is it people who thought they could shoot and then suddenly found out they suck?

I don't think having a degree or not matters. While it does add some sparkle to the resume, I think its more about the individual and the character that person displays. Like the previous post, living in a sheltered enclosure all of your life, then suddenly wanting to be an officer of the law, is a big jump. Granted the right person could do it, but more often than not those(according to the officers in the Dept.) that fit that mold don't succeed.

[CHPwhyf]

My husband just completed his 1st week. It was brutal, however he knew it was going to be, he talked to anyone that was willing to talk to him. He worked out for 6 months, 6 days a week. He did the video they gave him as far as PT. He asked his recruiter tons of questions. He doesn't have a degree, we had credit problems when we were first married, 11 years ago. I am a beginner here, but he wants this bad. He has always wanted to be with the CHP. There is no give up in this man. He won't leave unless they drop him off on the interstate somewhere:smile:. We spent our first weekend, ironing, stencil, studying, etc. He got back to his room and his roommates hadn't even started and it was 10pm. My man isn't a saint but he really wants this come H*** or high water. He did whatever they told him, and whatever they tell him now. I understand crap happens, but there is something to be said for sucking it up? Just a thought.

[LS1CHP]

My husband just completed his 1st week. It was brutal, however he knew it was going to be, he talked to anyone that was willing to talk to him. He worked out for 6 months, 6 days a week. He did the video they gave him as far as PT. He asked his recruiter tons of questions. He doesn't have a degree, we had credit problems when we were first married, 11 years ago. I am a beginner here, but he wants this bad. He has always wanted to be with the CHP. There is no give up in this man. He won't leave unless they drop him off on the interstate somewhere:smile:. We spent our first weekend, ironing, stencil, studying, etc. He got back to his room and his roommates hadn't even started and it was 10pm. My man isn't a saint but he really wants this come H*** or high water. He did whatever they told him, and whatever they tell him now. I understand crap happens, but there is something to be said for sucking it up? Just a thought.
Yep, there is something to be said, reaching the light at the end of the tunnel.
Congrats to the both of you in making it together. Nothing is impossible

[Eagl5]

LS, don't take this the wrong way, but I would suggest you take redheads advice and just listen and observe. I don't care how many people you know who were dq'd, but I can say with almost 99.9% certainty that they did not tell you all the resons for their disqualifications. My suggestion to you, if you are indeed serious about becoming an officer is to worry about you and you alone. And I noticed the same thing that retchp did, but did not want to say anything about it, and if you are in the process you should know that background investigators love to come here and look for their applicants and their posts...i sure did. So stay in school, stay off drugs and listen and observe.

As for another post I saw, having a degree does not guarantee nothing. It helps sure, but its no guarantee someone will be a good officer. SOme of the best officers I know and work with did not go to college, its nice to have, but its no big deal if you don't.

[bcjack]

LS, don't take this the wrong way, but I would suggest you take redheads advice and just listen and observe. I don't care how many people you know who were dq'd, but I can say with almost 99.9% certainty that they did not tell you all the resons for their disqualifications. My suggestion to you, if you are indeed serious about becoming an officer is to worry about you and you alone. And I noticed the same thing that retchp did, but did not want to say anything about it, and if you are in the process you should know that background investigators love to come here and look for their applicants and their posts...i sure did. So stay in school, stay off drugs and listen and observe.

As for another post I saw, having a degree does not guarantee nothing. It helps sure, but its no guarantee someone will be a good officer. SOme of the best officers I know and work with did not go to college, its nice to have, but its no big deal if you don't.

+1:tape:

[LS1CHP]

LS, don't take this the wrong way, but I would suggest you take redheads advice and just listen and observe. I don't care how many people you know who were dq'd, but I can say with almost 99.9% certainty that they did not tell you all the resons for their disqualifications. My suggestion to you, if you are indeed serious about becoming an officer is to worry about you and you alone. And I noticed the same thing that retchp did, but did not want to say anything about it, and if you are in the process you should know that background investigators love to come here and look for their applicants and their posts...i sure did. So stay in school, stay off drugs and listen and observe.

As for another post I saw, having a degree does not guarantee nothing. It helps sure, but its no guarantee someone will be a good officer. SOme of the best officers I know and work with did not go to college, its nice to have, but its no big deal if you don't.

Understood. Thanks for the advice. Didn't mean to cause such a ruckus.:cool:

[gabriel]

For what its worth. Very good thread and good job everyone for not going crazy and at each others throats. Very insightful. :wink:

[SweepTheLeg]

Great article.

My suggestion would be something that NJSP now does, they have an Academy Awareness weekend.

All recruits are required to attend and get a first hand look at how NJSP runs their training, if they are not a good fit, they can back out before the state invests additional time/money.:hitwall:

During my USSS days there was a female from the class behind us that quit after one week, she wasn't aware there would be firearms training, I am %100 serious.

She didn't know the Secret Service used guns.

[iwannabeachp]

To the above story, all I can say is WOW :doubt:. I knew people like that when I was in the Army too. They wanted out during basic training because they didn't believe in using weapons. I guess I just don't get it.

[quaylie]

To the above story, all I can say is WOW :doubt:. I knew people like that when I was in the Army too. They wanted out during basic training because they didn't believe in using weapons. I guess I just don't get it.

What did they think they were gonna protect this country with? A spork?:lol:

[Clutch-n-Throttle]

What did they think they were gonna protect this country with? A spork?:lol:
They were going to talk nicely with the enemy, reason with them and then come to a mutual agreement.:rolleyes:

[Bradley]

I could see someone not thinking a firearm was necessary in EVERY Secret Service position. I'm sure there are investigators or analysts that rarely need access to a firearm, if ever. It obviously does make sense to train all sworn positions the same, however.

[quaylie]

I could see someone not thinking a firearm was necessary in EVERY Secret Service position. I'm sure there are investigators or analysts that rarely need access to a firearm, if ever. It obviously does make sense to train all sworn positions the same, however.

Maybe they were thinking the Secret Service were still just going around investigating counterfeit currency.:rolleyes:

[CHPWife]

Sorry bad choice of words. Did not pay the balance of the credit card is what I am trying to say.

Not paying it ever or not paying it in full every month?

[CHPWife]

I guess I'm missing something. Why do we want to increase academy graduation rates? Isn't part of the academy process to weed out those not cut out (for whatever reason) for the job? As I see it the only way to increase the graduation rate would be to tighten up the hiring process - otherwise you are graduating people who are not ready for the job. Once they graduate and get to the field it gets much harder to change their employment status.

[Tom]

I guess I'm missing something. Why do we want to increase academy graduation rates? Isn't part of the academy process to weed out those not cut out (for whatever reason) for the job? As I see it the only way to increase the graduation rate would be to tighten up the hiring process - otherwise you are graduating people who are not ready for the job. Once they graduate and get to the field it gets much harder to change their employment status.

Its a large waste of money. That is why they want to increase it and not waste the money....its all about money.

[SweepTheLeg]

I guess I'm missing something. Why do we want to increase academy graduation rates? Isn't part of the academy process to weed out those not cut out (for whatever reason) for the job? As I see it the only way to increase the graduation rate would be to tighten up the hiring process - otherwise you are graduating people who are not ready for the job. Once they graduate and get to the field it gets much harder to change their employment status.

I see your point.

I think what the study is trying to do is get the "right" people and help make their transistion easier.

For example, if you allow more family contact via email/cell phone during free time after hours it will help cadets focus more on study/classes/pt. The stress of limited contact with wife/kids/husband can be hard. Most of the time the significant other who is at home alone with kids and limited help is the biggest reason for people leaving.

Please note, I am not referring to cadets still living at home with parents who are home sick. I am strictly talking about cadets with young families, if your wife/husband isn't %100 on-board it can make for a long 6 months.

[SweepTheLeg]

Its a large waste of money. That is why they want to increase it and not waste the money....its all about money.

To add to my previous post....what he said ^^^^

[not5150]

I think it may be dangerous to only focus on graduation rates. Instead, the combined "survival" rate of recruits from graduation to successfully passing probation should be measured.

It makes no sense to make the academy easier, only to have a higher percentage fail probation. It also makes no sense to skimp on academy training/stress, only to have the officer make a dumb decision and get sued later on. The liability could be just too great.

[LS1CHP]

Not paying it ever or not paying it in full every month?
Not paying it in full every month. Leaving some of it on the balance.

[OfficerWife]

I see your point.

I think what the study is trying to do is get the "right" people and help make their transistion easier.

For example, if you allow more family contact via email/cell phone during free time after hours it will help cadets focus more on study/classes/pt. The stress of limited contact with wife/kids/husband can be hard. Most of the time the significant other who is at home alone with kids and limited help is the biggest reason for people leaving.


I think the time at the academy is great training for spouses too. You get to learn how to spend nights sleeping alone, have limited contact and taking care of things yourself that your spouse otherwise would have. Once the cadet becomes an officer, life doesn't suddenly become a cake-walk, those same things still exist...just say'n :wink:

[SweepTheLeg]

I think the time at the academy is great training for spouses too. You get to learn how to spend nights sleeping alone, have limited contact and taking care of things yourself that your spouse otherwise would have. Once the cadet becomes an officer, life doesn't suddenly become a cake-walk, those same things still exist...just say'n :wink:

I will respectfully disagree.

Yes you will be alone at night but I am sure most Officers carry their cell phone and can check in most of the time. Plus the Officer will be home every night (god willing) and not just weekends.

Even working shifts (swing and set) is better than training with limited contact, if you are creative the Officer/Wife can make time to hang and get things done.

I wore the badge and know the BS that comes with it, sometimes the mission will take priority but hopefully not to often.

Regardless...great thread and I hope your husband (and all the Officers) stay safe.

[CTCI08Wife]

I will respectfully disagree.

Yes you will be alone at night but I am sure most Officers carry their cell phone and can check in most of the time. Plus the Officer will be home every night (god willing) and not just weekends.

Even working shifts (swing and set) is better than training with limited contact, if you are creative the Officer/Wife can make time to hang and get things done.

I wore the badge and know the BS that comes with it, sometimes the mission will take priority but hopefully not to often.

Regardless...great thread and I hope your husband (and all the Officers) stay safe.

And I Sir, must respectfully disagree with You.

I have gone the full 8 hours unable to speak to my husband because he has just been too busy to answer or call me back. Not just once in awhile... all the time.

Yes, theoretically my husband comes home every night (unlike during the Academy). Unless, of course, you consider the fact that "night" for him is often 7am because he worked graves. He comes home and goes to sleep, while I get up and take the kids to school, run errands, clean house, and often go to work myself for the 4 hours that he is awake before he goes back to work. That means that very often I don't see/spend quality time with him for DAYS at a time.

Also, you are assuming that on his "days off" (only 2 a week, because he works 8 hour shifts still), he will not have court (4 hours), be going hunting/fishing/etc to relax on his own, or doesn't have reports, crash diagrams, etc to work on because he got slammed for the last 5 days. Also considering that I may be working a 12-hour shift for both days he's off (because as a "stay-at-home-Mom", I don't go to my outside job on his working days), it may be weeks before we have any 'quality time'. Yes, we do the best we can to have this time together whenever we can, but that's when OUR "Academy Training" kicks in... We make plans to do things, and hope they don't fall through. If they do, we make the best of it, and hope it turns out better next time.

I fully agree with OfficerWife when she says that being out of the Academy is not going to be a cake-walk in comparison, because it certainly is not. The Academy was absolutely great training for "the real world" of being a CHP wife (and police wife in general). It may have been hard to have my husband gone for 5 days a week while in the Academy, but it is no easier because he is "home every night".

[Eagl5]

And I Sir, must respectfully disagree with You.

I have gone the full 8 hours unable to speak to my husband because he has just been too busy to answer or call me back. Not just once in awhile... all the time.

Yes, theoretically my husband comes home every night (unlike during the Academy). Unless, of course, you consider the fact that "night" for him is often 7am because he worked graves. He comes home and goes to sleep, while I get up and take the kids to school, run errands, clean house, and often go to work myself for the 4 hours that he is awake before he goes back to work. That means that very often I don't see/spend quality time with him for DAYS at a time.

Also, you are assuming that on his "days off" (only 2 a week, because he works 8 hour shifts still), he will not have court (4 hours), be going hunting/fishing/etc to relax on his own, or doesn't have reports, crash diagrams, etc to work on because he got slammed for the last 5 days. Also considering that I may be working a 12-hour shift for both days he's off (because as a "stay-at-home-Mom", I don't go to my outside job on his working days), it may be weeks before we have any 'quality time'. Yes, we do the best we can to have this time together whenever we can, but that's when OUR "Academy Training" kicks in... We make plans to do things, and hope they don't fall through. If they do, we make the best of it, and hope it turns out better next time.

I fully agree with OfficerWife when she says that being out of the Academy is not going to be a cake-walk in comparison, because it certainly is not. The Academy was absolutely great training for "the real world" of being a CHP wife (and police wife in general). It may have been hard to have my husband gone for 5 days a week while in the Academy, but it is no easier because he is "home every night".
I agree with both the wifes here. It is hard for new officers, and their families when the start working the road, court, training etc...cuts into times. And the Academy does allow contact with families, i called home almost everynight and thats when they had pay phones their. So for those of you who have not gone through our Academy you cant compare you academy to ours, because ours is different and unique. That families that are stron will stay together through thick and thin.

[OfficerWife]

Thanks I-08 Wife and Eagle, well said.

[SweepTheLeg]

Well...looks like we will agree to disagree.

I worked mids for a few years in DC, and we have something called "papering a case", it stinks!. You make a lock up on mids, you have to stay until the case is presented then usually dropped by the AUSA...but easy OT.:doh:

I would always make time to catch up with the wife and kids when my shift was over at 07:00. Little breakfast, get the kids off to daycare, and kiss the wife before she goes to work.

Then I would hit the sack and be up for after school, dinner, some tv, then roll call. My point, if you make it work , it will work. Besides working out my only other release is family time...I guess I am boring as I age.

Regardless...stay safe all...great thread and forum!

[parrunk24]

lol i love your quote "pain is weakness leaving the body"
its so true!
great discussion i enjoy the topic :)

IMO unfortunately not everyone reporting to the academy are there for the right reasons, some are there just to see if law enforcement might be right for them, testing the waters. (you need to be serious! this is the rest of your life, either be 100% committed or let some other deserving applicants take your place!)
It is unfair that money invested in some cadets really goes to waste, but hey what can you do?! really :surprised:
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