Bailout the BIG 3?

[SweepTheLeg]

Should we bail out the BIG 3 or let the "free market" take it's course?

Also, if they go out of business what would be top choice for replacement squad car? I know one company that would be interested.

http://www.carbonmotors.com/

[CHPn00b]

hard to see it everyday. I have only owned American cars and I hope someday my children own American cars.

We put ourselves in this situation by not making a more appealing, more efficient, and innovative vehicle. It's a tough call to see if one goes down, the other 2 might share the same fate.

I was reading earlier today on CNN that there are 2000 different auto vendors for GM, one for windows, one for air bags, one for the carpet, etc etc.. if they go down, their businesses go down too.

:cry:

[AyatollahGondola]

Chrysler was already bailed out once. they paid us back by moving their plant to mexico. We do not have an endless supply of money to keep every company, state, city, or organization afloat regardless of what some congresional, senatorial, and executive leaders would have us believe. We have to pick and choose, and some of our so called leaders are acting as if we can do it all.

[ValGS350]

Chrysler was already bailed out once. they paid us back by moving their plant to mexico. We do not have an endless supply of money to keep every company, state, city, or organization afloat regardless of what some congresional, senatorial, and executive leaders would have us believe. We have to pick and choose, and some of our so called leaders are acting as if we can do it all.

Well GM moved there plants to Mexico while more than 75% of Toyotas Line-up is built in the United States of America. Mercedes also makes there RL, GL, ML in the United States also, Foreign companies seem to be helping the blue collar worker more than the big 3!

Should we reward the big 3 for there own failure?

Replacement squad car,

I would pick the 2007 BMW E-60 M5 just like the Polizei in Germany or the Mercedes Brabus CLS Rocket, hahahaha but I don't think our current or future budget would allow this!

http://img.motorpasion.com/brabus_cls_rocket_polizei-01.jpg

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/2460/brabuspolice04jd3.jpg

[AyatollahGondola]

It's pretty hard to determine if it's made here or just assembled here, but in any case, the pressure is on for global manufacturing rather than national. It's kind of disturbing to listen to or read the hand wringing over the failures of the manufacturing sector by the same politicians who approved trade agreements like NAFTA.
I drive a dodge product and I'd be in sad shape to repair it on my own since so much of it relies on specially made electronic parts that control things right down to the battery temperature. However, if the choice is between whether I drive my truck or have my free enterprise country turn into a socialist economic system,... I'll walk.

[ValGS350]

It's pretty hard to determine if it's made here or just assembled here, but in any case, the pressure is on for global manufacturing rather than national. It's kind of disturbing to listen to or read the hand wringing over the failures of the manufacturing sector by the same politicians who approved trade agreements like NAFTA.
I drive a dodge product and I'd be in sad shape to repair it on my own since so much of it relies on specially made electronic parts that control things right down to the battery temperature. However, if the choice is between whether I drive my truck or have my free enterprise country turn into a socialist economic system,... I'll walk.

Just assembled!

Parts still made in Japan and for Mercedes Germany!

[Fire1]

hell, Kia just built that new billion dollar plant in what, Alabama was it. They can make cars that work (or so i am told) and make money doing it. If you build crap, do you wonder why people don't buy.:hitwall:

[E433035]

Article from today's edition of the Detroit Free Press:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6 myths about the Detroit 3


BY MARK PHELAN • FREE PRESS COLUMNIST • November 17, 2008

The debate over aid to the Detroit-based automakers is awash with half-truths and misrepresentations that are endlessly repeated by everyone from members of Congress to journalists. Here are six myths about the companies and their vehicles, and the reality in each case.

Myth No. 1
Nobody buys their vehicles.

Reality

General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the world. GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 560,000 so far this year. Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world's largest automaker, selling 9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota.

Ford outsold Honda by about 850,000 and Nissan by more than 1.3 million vehicles in the United States last year.

Chrysler sold more vehicles here than Nissan and Hyundai combined in 2007 and so far this year.

Myth No. 2
They build unreliable junk.

Reality

The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone. Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Powers Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.

J D Powers rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.

Myth No. 3
They build gas-guzzlers.

Reality

All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the Environmental Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2 m.p.g. better than the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford Focus has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most efficient Toyota Corolla. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient non-hybrid Honda Civic. A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo subcompact is the least expensive car to buy and operate.

Myth No. 4
They already got a $25-billion bailout.

Reality

None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown that's killing them now.

Myth No. 5GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs.

Reality

The domestic companies' lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent billions of dollars on pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically profitable part of the auto industry. The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan's full-size pickups.

Myth No. 6
They don't build hybrids.

Reality

The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but Ford and GM each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or Nissan, with several more due to hit the road in early 2009.

[AyatollahGondola]

I don't have any complaint about the big 3 that I wouldn't have about any others. My complaint centers around hypocrisy. The taxpaying people of America should not prop up a corporation that ships jobs out of the country, but products in. We certainly shouldn't support an industry with taxpayer funds if they undermine the very industrial jobs that any rescue might be worthy of for American workers. Just makes little sense for us to susidize their workers in other countries when we have drastically shrinking employment opportunities.

[Furberger]

maybe instead of the government giving the Big 3 the 25 billion dollar bailout/loan, the oil companies should. I'm just sayin:noidea:

[AyatollahGondola]

maybe instead of the government giving the Big 3 the 25 billion dollar bailout/loan, the oil companies should. I'm just sayin:noidea:
seems a lot more fair, however I doubt they would have much incentive to build fuel efficient vehicles.