Handguns

[Royd5150]

Hello-

I know CHP is one of the few agencies in the nation using the S&W 4006, is the department thinking of upgrading or using a diffrent gun? I know CHP is the leader in the state for things , cars , motors, ect. , but this gun seems to have missed the boat.

Thanks!!

[Processing]

roydcrazy...
how do you mean? its just an opinion, as i am no gun expert, but this sure beats the 9mm or .45 that alot of agencies use... at least from a power standpoint.

[bcjack]

When I was working, I carried a Glock in .40 S & W. with the infamous and original 180 grain "Black Talon" hollow point. The .40 was an outstanding round with the Black Talon on board and I would not have traded the .40 for anything. That being said, everyone has their favorite. :smile:

[NorCalN00b]

When I was working, I carried a Glock in .40 S & W. with the infamous and original 180 grain "Black Talon" hollow point. The .40 was an outstanding round with the Black Talon on board and I would not have traded the .40 for anything. That being said, everyone has their favorite. :smile:

What? They let you carry the GLOCK .40S&W in the CHP?

Last time I heard, the S&W Model 4006 .40S&W is already out of production. I think the CHP should adopt the SiG Sauer P226 .40S&W handgun as standard sevice issue.

Does anyone know what handgun the CHP SWAT team uses?

[bcjack]

What? They let you carry the GLOCK .40S&W in the CHP?

Last time I heard, the S&W Model 4006 .40S&W is already out of production. I think the CHP should adopt the SiG Sauer P226 .40S&W handgun as standard sevice issue.

Does anyone know what handgun the CHP SWAT team uses?[/quote]

I was with a P.D. as a Reserve officer for 16 years. I believe the CHP says you have to carry what they give you...no options.

[Flying Pig]

My Dept carries the S&W 4506 which is the full size 45......SW quit making it 10 years ago. We are now going to the SW Tactical 45 with the tac light. There is nothing wrong with the SW, its just that there are much better weapons out there. The SW is a boat anchor. If you run out of bullets, you can hit someone with it! My issue with the CHP issued gun is the bobbed hammer. It rediculous to limit the hammer.

[CHP Explorer]

I believe the dept. is going to use the S&W 4006 TSW.

[Cameron]

Are CHP Officers taught to shoot in double taps? If so, isn't the weight of the S and W a big help in keeping the muzzle down and the pistol on target?

[Your Mentor]

Everyone is right here. No, you are not allowed to carry anything other than what is issued. You can carry a secondary firearm (backup) with certain restrictions. Yes our current issue 4006 is out of production and yes we are going to the 4006 TSW. The CHP Swat team is required to carry the same duty weapon as everyone else. Their swat duties are part time. They patrol the Capital when not called out for swat ops. The only difference is they also carry MP5's (or at least that was their assualt weapon in 2004). And those of us in the field played no part in the selection of our service weapon. And most of us in the field have never been happy with it. Finally, the added weight DOES keep the muzzle down. All you have to do is shoot a Glock to see how dramatically the weight helps with the Smith.

[bcjack]

Mentor...The weight is, in my humble opinion, not a major factor in the shooting of my Glock .40. I shot Distinguished Expert my entire career and was the #2, #3, or #4 (out of 70 Officers) shooter in the Department for all 16 years. Practice, practice, practice...makes most of the difference. Admittedly, I had a second motivation too...as a Reserve Officer, I got paid a whole $12.00 an hour and I was NOT going to be out shot by some scumbag on the street for $12.00 an hour. Fortunately, I never had to test my shooting ability in the real world. :smile:

[Your Mentor]

bcjack,
I agree that Glocks shoot sweet and weight does not have to be a hinderence. I did, however, have a chance while working in Death Valley, to shoot with the USNPS troops from time to time. They were carrying Glock .40's. I shot one and moments later shot my 4006. The perceived recoil and muzzle jump with the Glock was remarkebly more dramatic. I'm NOT implying that's an aweful thing. It's just a feature of any polymer framed side arm. One thing that helps with the Glock is the slide is so much closer to the top of the shooter's hand, thereby reducing the torque exerted as the muzzle lifts. But there's no denying that the heavy (and I don't like how heavy it is) 4006 translates far less energy from the muzzle to the shooter's hand. Many of the USNPS troops shot my gun and were surprised as well. It wasn't long before the Park Service adopted the Sig nation wide and so DV troops lost their Glocks. Many were dissappointed. I would have been too.

Well done with your shooting skills and determination. Practice is the ultimate felony spoiler.

[TheForceCHP]

so do all officers get issued a new gun then???

[Nonsequitur]

Have any of you had any problems with the S&W autos? I have always heard, and in my personal experience, that the best thing that can be said about S&W autos is that S&W makes great revolvers!

Personally I have owned only one (4506) which I promptly sold, so YMMV. Now I only own Sig-Sauer P series handguns, and was elated that my Department switched from the Beretta 96GT to the SIG P226R/P229R/P239.

I was not happy with my former Glock either, but at least it always worked.

[Your Mentor]

Not everyone is issued a new weapon at present but that's going to change with the next graduating cadet class. Since we're getting new guns, we'll get new ones. When the Academy gets a surplus of weapons turned in by retirees, firees, and quiters, they'll begin recycling again, I imagine.

[dw]

Have any of you had any problems with the S&W autos? I have always heard, and in my personal experience, that the best thing that can be said about S&W autos is that S&W makes great revolvers!

Mine was new when I got it. Jammed consistently (ejection port) for the first thousand or so rounds. Been fine ever since.

[Phil the Frenchy]

In France last year, all police forces get a modified Sig Sauer P226/9mm.
It is a big change for the officers who used a cal. 38 revolver !!!!

Just my two cents

[Nonsequitur]

In France last year, all police forces get a modified Sig Sauer P226/9mm.
It is a big change for the officers who used a cal. 38 revolver !!!!

Just my two cents

I really like our P226R in .40 S&W! I agree a P226 is a major upgrade from a .38 Revolver in all but the weight on the hip! ;)

[Nonsequitur]

Have any of you had any problems with the S&W autos? I have always heard, and in my personal experience, that the best thing that can be said about S&W autos is that S&W makes great revolvers!

Mine was new when I got it. Jammed consistently (ejection port) for the first thousand or so rounds. Been fine ever since.

Similar experience with my 4506... That is why I got rid of it. I just could never trust it, but as my wife says I am paranoid about somethings. :biggrin:

[dw]

Nonsequitur, out of curiosity, why didn't you like your Glock?

[NorCalN00b]

Why did the CHP chose the S&W 4006 in the first place? Did they conduct a torture test first? What did the CHP use before switching over to the 4006?

[Your Mentor]

That's a good question with a long answer. Before the 4006 we carried S&W .38's. You could carry a four or six inch. If you purchased your own .357 mag from one of three manufacturers, the department provided the ammo. Many of us carried our own .357 magnums.

The 4006 actually didn't exist until the CHP entered the picture. We were testing 9mm'ers of various makes though the testing process was dragging on and on for years. Then a shoot-out between FBI agents and two felons broke out in Florida. It was an ugly firefight wherein the felons were both hit multiple times yet were able to return lethal fire. The 10mm was all the rage at that time. Remember the 10mm? Not a real popular round anymore. The idea was to have a round only slightly larger than the 9mm for magazine capacity yet have the stopping power of a .357 magnum or .45. The problem was the recoil. The 10mm kicked like no other automatic handgun at the time. Colt's Delta Elite was known for premature wear and tear because of the immense chamber pressures dealt by the round. In spite of any such misgivings the FBI adopted the S&W 1006 within months of their infamous shooting. The CHP decided to test the 10mm since we were still evaluating 9mm'ers. The recoil was so dramatic that commissioner Hannigan, a long-time S&W fan, suggested to Smith we needed something in between the two. Well the FBI was already having problems with their 10mm'ers and had already adopted a reduced pressure round then-dubbed the 10mm lite. S&W's research and developement team was actually working on the problem all along and presented Hannigan with information regarding a new round based on the 10mm lite. The .40 cal is actually 10mm in diameter. The case is just shorter and at first was called the 10mm short. Of course since S&W patented the round they had to add their name to it. Anyway, the Academy received some prototypes and to make a long story short, we picked up the gun and the .40 S&W swept across law enforcementdom. It is now the most popular LE round in the US and is making strides internationally.

As for the gun, well it was new technology back then. Glock, Sig Sauer, and Walther immediately marketed guns in the new round. Glock was the first to follow suit. Sig Sauer tried to market a similar round known as the .357 Sig. It's basically a .40 cal cartridge necked down to hold a 9mm bullet. I owned one several years ago and it shot sweet. Unfortunately it was a wildcat round with no home. You don't see to many anymore.

[NorCalN00b]

That's a good question with a long answer. Before the 4006 we carried S&W .38's. You could carry a four or six inch. If you purchased your own .357 mag from one of three manufacturers, the department provided the ammo. Many of us carried our own .357 magnums.

The 4006 actually didn't exist until the CHP entered the picture. We were testing 9mm'ers of various makes though the testing process was dragging on and on for years. Then a shoot-out between FBI agents and two felons broke out in Florida. It was an ugly firefight wherein the felons were both hit multiple times yet were able to return lethal fire. The 10mm was all the rage at that time. Remember the 10mm? Not a real popular round anymore. The idea was to have a round only slightly larger than the 9mm for magazine capacity yet have the stopping power of a .357 magnum or .45. The problem was the recoil. The 10mm kicked like no other automatic handgun at the time. Colt's Delta Elite was known for premature wear and tear because of the immense chamber pressures dealt by the round. In spite of any such misgivings the FBI adopted the S&W 1006 within months of their infamous shooting. The CHP decided to test the 10mm since we were still evaluating 9mm'ers. The recoil was so dramatic that commissioner Hannigan, a long-time S&W fan, suggested to Smith we needed something in between the two. Well the FBI was already having problems with their 10mm'ers and had already adopted a reduced pressure round then-dubbed the 10mm lite. S&W's research and developement team was actually working on the problem all along and presented Hannigan with information regarding a new round based on the 10mm lite. The .40 cal is actually 10mm in diameter. The case is just shorter and at first was called the 10mm short. Of course since S&W patented the round they had to add their name to it. Anyway, the Academy received some prototypes and to make a long story short, we picked up the gun and the .40 S&W swept across law enforcementdom. It is now the most popular LE round in the US and is making strides internationally.

As for the gun, well it was new technology back then. Glock, Sig Sauer, and Walther immediately marketed guns in the new round. Glock was the first to follow suit. Sig Sauer tried to market a similar round known as the .357 Sig. It's basically a .40 cal cartridge necked down to hold a 9mm bullet. I owned one several years ago and it shot sweet. Unfortunately it was a wildcat round with no home. You don't see to many anymore.
Nice info there Chippy. Since the 4006 is out of production, why is the CHP moving to the 4006 TSW? Why not the SiG Sauer P226 .40 or GLOCK 22 .40?

[Royd5150]

Thanks for all the information everyone. Is the department going to let you all carry a tac light attached to it for duty carry?

[Your Mentor]

I wish I could devine the reasons for decisions made regarding field equipment. I imagine the cost. Our gunsmiths are all S&W certified, we have an ongoing relationship with S&W which stretchs back over 60 years, blah, blah, blah. But it's a done deal.

The whole tac light issue is still being discussed among our union reps though nothing has been determined yet.

[Capsicum]

Rumor from one of the K9's is that they may get to keep the light rails, but the other officers will not. But rumors being rumors...

[ka4993]

I was talking to an area rep the other day. He said they tested sigs and a few others. They wanted to go with a gun that would last longer and take more abuse. (plastics vs. metal) I'm not excited that our new guns will actually be heaver, but I guess there are some benefits to it.

[Mac]

...They wanted to go with a gun that would last longer and take more abuse. (plastics vs. metal)...
That's still highly debatable, IMO.

I'm sure the mfrs of the "boat anchor" guns use that as their argument, but I've never seen any evidence that all-metal weapons last longer and/or take more abuse than polymer/metal weapons. I don't claim to be an expert and I'm open to discussion, but I just find it hard to believe that Glock, et. al. are knowingly manufacturing "disposable guns".

[Your Mentor]

Look at all the Berettas and Sigs that are still in service with the military. They're all metal but the frame on these guns are aluminum. They could have gone with the 4003 TSW. It's the same gun but with an aluminum frame. That wouldn't satisfy me as far as environmental concerns go but it's so much lighter.

[NorCalN00b]

Look at all the Berettas and Sigs that are still in service with the military. They're all metal but the frame on these guns are aluminum. They could have gone with the 4003 TSW. It's the same gun but with an aluminum frame. That wouldn't satisfy me as far as environmental concerns go but it's so much lighter.
It also has to do with good engineering.

SiG P226 9mm - In used by U.S Navy Seals
SiG P228 9mm - In used by MPs and aircrews I think
SiG Pro 9mm - I heard this pistol is being used by tank crews

The SiG Pro is the most underrated gun out there in my opinion.

[Nonsequitur]

Nonsequitur, out of curiosity, why didn't you like your Glock?

Sorry dw I did not see this question... I got rid of it because it just was not a comfortable shooter for me. Personally I have nothing against Glocks at all, I just prefer SIGs...