Writing Tickets

[SR-25]

I've wanted to join the CHP for sometime now, but then I hear officers that say stuff like this ( this was on another site )

"The last time I heard, "If you would have ran my plates, you would have know Im a peace officer", was when I wrote a Correctional Officer for 20 MPH over the speed limit.... to an officer not realizing your a "Peace Officer" and ... Why should it matter who you work for? "

LET ME MAKE SOMETHING CLEAR, I KNOW NOT ALL CHP OFFICERS DO THIS!! BUT THERE IS A SELECT FEW

At first, I kind of took the stuff that some of the Local PD officers that I know said about the CHP with a grain of salt. But now that I have heard it from a CHP officers mouth that he will write a fellow LEO, im not so sure. Ive known many local LEO's that pull off duty CHP officers over and let them go. The only stories I have heard have been that a CHP officer pulls over a Local PD officer and writes them. Is this something that a lot of "older" patrol officers do? Or have you seen this trend among the younger officers also? I mean, all LEO's have gone through defensive driving and 99.9% of them can drive at high speeds safely. So why write a fellow LEO? Now ill open it up to hear what all of you think about this subject.

[SR-25]

Oh, and Im aware that Correctional Officers do not go through defensive driving, but he made it sound like he would write any LEO.

[bcjack]

What makes it ok for a LEO to drive 75, or 80, or 85, or whatever down the freeway and be free to do so, while an ordinary Joe or Jane gets fanged for it? I would love to be able to fly down the freeway and when I get stopped, flash a badge and get the "Oh, ok, carry on good buddy." Just a non-LEO opinion...:confused:

[bcjack]

Go back to Page 1 of this Section... there is some pretty good discussion on this topic.

http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=19&id=27612

[DESERT RAT]

(SR-25)So, let me get this right. Are you saying that you are questioning becoming a CHIPPY because you have heard that a CHIPPY somewhere wrote a fellow LEO for speeding? If so, that is about the dumbest thing I have heard! If you dont wanna write LEO's tickets, then don't! If you wanna write LEO's then that is your perogative. Were not the collective BORG, where we all do the same thing! Believe it or not, some off duty LEO's are worse than Irate civies! I personally have only 3 loyalties, To GOD, My Family, and the CHP, and one of them waivers a little depending on our current year contract! So, would I write another LEO for speeding? Its my perogative, nobody tells me who I can or cant write! So, let me ask you a question, would you hook a LEO for Duece?

[SR-25]

(SR-25)So, let me get this right. Are you saying that you are questioning becoming a CHIPPY because you have heard that a CHIPPY somewhere wrote a fellow LEO for speeding? If so, that is about the dumbest thing I have heard! If you dont wanna write LEO's tickets, then don't! If you wanna write LEO's then that is your perogative. Were not the collective BORG, where we all do the same thing! Believe it or not, some off duty LEO's are worse than Irate civies! I personally have only 3 loyalties, To GOD, My Family, and the CHP, and one of them waivers a little depending on our current year contract! So, would I write another LEO for speeding? Its my perogative, nobody tells me who I can or cant write! So, let me ask you a question, would you hook a LEO for Duece?

Not questioning per se. Im just big on loyalty. You wear the same badge and enforce the same laws. The CHP just have a larger jurisdiction. For duece, I sure as hell would. But just speeding, like I said before. You are all trained to do it safely.

[Royd5150]

SR-25, only speeding? What about other violations, like crossing double yellows, or a "California Stop", or no seat belt. I believe it to be much harder if you try to make one exception and not to make more. Or is it easier to enforce all fairly? Just because you stop them, is it more of a correction with a verbal warning or a citation? Lots to consider on each stop. Also a point to remember not only does the highway patrol face these issues but local police and sheriff's departments. Just some thoughts.

[not5150]

The "Would You Write Another Officer" question often erupts into a holy war.... as evidenced by the LONG thread about Professional Courtesy on that "other" board.

[uoplax13]

I think I saw that thread on the "other" board.....after about a page I think I gave up reading it!

[pupdog]

It's not a department thing at all...complete officer discrecion...'no ma'am, we don't have quotas, I can write as many as I want!' I'm sure many officers don't write other officers, but for one to flash their badge and expect it is completly unprofessional in my book!
This reminds me of when I was in the midwest for a few years, dealing with (pardon, must use a 4 letter word here)...SNOW. I would slip my way to work, meanwhile there would be 4x4s out there 'owning' the road. Regardless of your vehicle capability or your training, other drivers must react to your actions! A 4x4 in post-blizzard conditions didn't seem to understand that the rest of us cannot stop in time to accomidate their antics! I feel this is a similar situation. Does EVOC give one the right to drive that way off duty in their own car? What safety problems could arise from the reaction of other drivers?

[uoplax13]

It seems to me that every stop is different. So.....every time an officer stops another officer it's going to be different. If I were to stop an officer someday and he was a jerk, and being really unsafe....and depending on if he worked close enough to ever end up being my backup....he might get a ticket. Just like when a normal person gets stopped, there are a lot of variables. I can think of at least one example where, only as an average joe, I could have talked my way into a ticket.....but instead I played stupid and was polite, etc...

I think the next storm hits early Thursday and is planning on lasting up here until sometime next week......don't get me started on SUV drivers from the bay/valley that drive like idiots :smile: ....same thing with people with 4x4's....I drive my Jeep fairly safely and responsibly....of course maybe it's just that Jeep owners are good people....I've only pulled out Fords, Toyotas, and Chevy's this winter so far!

[uoplax13]

Damn, I got off topic a little just thinking about the SUV's.....I don't think being a cop exempts you from driving responsibly....I not saying I'm against "professional courtesy", but the law is the law...

[Mac]

There are officers on every agency I've ever dealt with who wrote other LEOs and didn't even think twice about it. A motor officer for one of the PDs wrote a number of deputies from the local SO who were in uniform and on their way to work. An officer on another local PD wrote one of his best friends' wives (the best friend was an officer at the same PD, even worked the same shift). One SO traffic deputy had the reputation that he'd write his own mother if he stopped her. And yes, I knew a CHP officer in an adjoining area who exercised NO discretion whatsoever - every single person he stopped got a ticket, period....no matter who they were, who they knew or what they'd done.

I won't even get into the ethics debate behind the issue....all I'll say that I've given breaks to a LOT of civilians I've never met before, so I'd think it unfair to write EVERY cop I came across. But if you're going to base your career decision upon finding an agency that has nobody who'd EVER write another LEO a ticket, you're going to be searching for a long time....and you'll likely end up disappointed anyway when you discover that there are exceptions to every rule.

[SR-25]

I personally have only 3 loyalties, To GOD, My Family, and the CHP,

Let me ask you this. If you had written an off duty local PD officer an hour before, then you pulled over an off duty CHP officer for the exact same thing, would you write him also?

(Mac) I know what you mean and I was not trying to generalize a complete force. The CHP just happen to be at the center of most of the stories ive heard. But also I've lost respect for ( so have a lot of other officers in the SDPD ) for this one motorcycle cop that will literally write you for a 37 in a 35. From the stories ive heard from patrol officers that are on his beat, he will even ticket LEOs for 2MPH over the speed limit. Ive come to realize that every dept. has its own "robocops" and "stormtroopers". I could just never be one of them. I would rather spend my time getting the drug dealers, murder suspects, DUI's and serious unsafe drivers.

[Fuller]

What makes it ok for a LEO to drive 75, or 80, or 85, or whatever down the freeway and be free to do so, while an ordinary Joe or Jane gets fanged for it? I would love to be able to fly down the freeway and when I get stopped, flash a badge and get the "Oh, ok, carry on good buddy." Just a non-LEO opinion...:confused:

Ok I had a thought on this matter. I also read that thread on the "other" forum and found what some of the local PO's were saying to be ridiculous when talking about how it should be ok for them to drive however they wanted to down the freeway and not deserve to be pulled over or written up simply because they are an officer themselves.

Allright. Then what about this, say a local sheriff deputy gets called to a domestic dispute call in which on off duty CHP officer happens to be involved. Is the CHP officer entitled to "flash his badge" and send the deputy on his way so he can get back to beating his wife? I don't think so. That would never happen. (kind of a bad/stupid example, I know)

So I don't understand the whole "I'm a police officer so I cannot be written a speeding ticket" attitude. To me, that is a blatant disrespect for the laws in which the CHP is supposed to enforce. What makes traffic laws any less important than the laws that local PD's and SO's enforce?

All law enforcement officers are trained to use good judgement, and are given the freedom to use their own judgement when deciding whether or not to write a ticket. So I can see where a CHP officer can determine based on his own good judgement that maybe this local off duty cop doesn't really need a ticket. But don't tell me that off duty officers are exempt from all traffic rules and laws and deserve to be let off the hook every time.

I think how any officer demonstrates his/her judgement in a given situation is one of the determining factors that separates the good officers from the not-so-good officers.

[x MAIT]

You have no idea how it feels to be trying to catch up with a high speed vehicle, weaving your motor through other traffic, finally catching up and stopping the car, putting yourself in risk of being struck by passing traffic, and then having the driver flash you a badge and give you some s--- for stopping them. I never wrote another officer, but I have made arrests for more serious things.

I always thought it funny when I was told by some allied officer that they got cited on the way to Vegas for 80 or something like that. I always asked them how fast they were really going and the conversation ended. I have been told by officers working that beat that if an officer got cited for 80, they were really going way in excess of 100. They got the citation because of the time, effort, and peril it took for the officer to catch them.

The CHP officer recently killed in the Ft Tejon area was trying to catch up with a high speed vehicle. He lost his life. I will bet you that if he would have been able to catch up with the car, stop it, and found that it was being driven by an officer, he would most likely have given the officer a warning. I guess if he would have issued a citation, then he would be the bad guy.

[Cameron]

All law enforcement officers are trained to use good judgement, and are given the freedom to use their own judgement when deciding whether or not to write a ticket. So I can see where a CHP officer can determine based on his own good judgement that maybe this local off duty cop doesn't really need a ticket. But don't tell me that off duty officers are exempt from all traffic rules and laws and deserve to be let off the hook every time.

I completely agree with Fuller. What he said is basically the crux of this entire discussion. We can discuss hypotheticals until the sun sets, but in the end, it will depend on a) the officer issuing the citation, b) the seriousness of the offense, and c) the attitude of the LEO receiving the citation.

[Chippysgt]

Hmmm. I was going to avoid this topic since it is such a matter of individual judgement. I did like Cameron's opinion. Must be because he is a Yolo County guy and I worked in Woodland for 13 years............

Believe it or not, this was a question on my oral examination to come on the Patrol. I must have said the right thing because I got the job. What did I say? Hmmm that might be giving some potential candidate and unfair advantage.

To me the bottom line depends on these things:

Descretion, common sense, integrety and ethics................

How you balance them will determine what you will do in any circumstance.

One ticket more or less, at the end of the day, is not that important. The sun will still rise tomorrow..................

[DESERT RAT]

SR-25 in response to your hypothetical. I can only speak what I would do, I have never shown my badge, I take my medicine and I pay the fine. Wait till you let a LEO slide for 90+, 10 minutes later you get the 11-80, 11-44 and its the LEO and his family you just let go. Hope you deal with guilt well! I know its not your fault entirely, but sure would suck! Lots of variables, Lots of Hypotheticals. I just hate the fact that I am expected to let someone else off because they flip a badge, when I wouldn't even think of doing it! But, it goes back to another thread on this site about entitlements!

If I was a betting man, I would bet that your view of loyalty will change pretty quickly, once and if you get on! My first week on the job, I had to hook a Fire Captain, Caltrans worker, and mailman. So, what about them (Firefighters), (Caltrans),(11-99 members), it really is a slippery slope, once you start letting some slide, where do you stop? Like I said, GOD, Family and CHP.

[SR-25]

(Desert Rat)
Ok, but you still didnt answer my question. Would you write an off duty CHP officer for 90 in a 65?

[DESERT RAT]

If I did, I probably wouldnt know it. Most CHIPPIES I have met dont flip their badges. I'll let you know what I do, when the situation arises to many hypotheticals. Was the PD a $hitbird, was the CHIPPY a Choirboy? It all depends!

[dw]

(Desert Rat)
Ok, but you still didnt answer my question. Would you write an off duty CHP officer for 90 in a 65?

I hate this discussion every time it comes up because generally the person presenting the scenario wants a black or white answer. Few, if any things in this profession, are black or white. In the scenario you present, was it raining? Traffic? Roadway condition? What is the apparent mental state of the driver? Condition of the vehicle? Etc...

For what it's worth, I've stopped dozens of local cops. Never stopped another Chippie to my knowledge. And yes, I've given verbal warnings to other cops as well as Joe Citizen for violations similar to what you describe.

[Fish'nChip]

Yep...there are pretty much only two things that are black and white:

1. Patrol Cars (unless you drive an SMPV)
2. the pages in your Vehicle Code

dw, you're 100% correct. It all depends. The reason why I don't like this question either is it all depends!

Have I given verbal warnings to doctors, teachers, college students, correctional officers, police officers, janitors, air conditioning repairpersons etc.. ? YES.

Have I given citations to doctors, teachers, college students, correctional officers, police officers, janitors, air conditioning repairpersons, etc.. ? YES.

Just as someone said before... you exercise your judgment everyday. As long as you are taking the appropriate enforcement action based on honest and legitimate reasons then you area all good and shame on anyone (especially any kind of officer) for questioning your decision. If anyone should understand it should be other officers.

If I was doing 90 and got pulled over and the officer was professional and genuine then I would have no problem in getting cited. Why should I get to go 90 whenever I want? Usually, officers get upset and bent out of shape because they were treated badly by the officer that stopped them.

FnC

[Mac]

(Desert Rat)
Ok, but you still didnt answer my question. Would you write an off duty CHP officer for 90 in a 65?
I'd have very little respect for anybody who could unequivocally answer that question either yes or no. To do so means that one would have a closed mind, no common sense or decision-making skills, and no ability to use discretion. In short, one would be missing all of the major attributes necessary to being a good LEO. Given the question as it's posed, I wouldn't even be nailed down to a yes or no answer if you substituted "Joe Public" for "off duty CHP officer".

[Mac]

I always thought it funny when I was told by some allied officer that they got cited on the way to Vegas for 80 or something like that. I always asked them how fast they were really going and the conversation ended. I have been told by officers working that beat that if an officer got cited for 80, they were really going way in excess of 100.
....not to mention the fact that they probably didn't even slow down when the red lights came on behind them - just hung their shield out the window and expected that the officer would turn off his lights and go away because he saw the badge. Talk to any desert cop and hear the stories.....that's the ultimate in disrespect, IMO.

My standard response to an "Adam Henry" cop who asks for professional courtesy after making an ass of himself - "You're not being professional, so why should I be courteous?". :badgrin: Respect is a two-way street.

[redhead]

As an non-officer, but Joe Public, that has been on multiple RA's when the officer pulled over another LEO, I can say two words.



Officer Discretion.



It has been said over and over in so many different ways.



D-Rat. I like your answers though.:smile:

[Your Mentor]

I hate this question too because the asker usually is sussing out an ethical myth which isn't a day to day dilema.

Know this. I've written a couple of cops. I let hundreds go with a warning. I've written thousands of civilians citations. I've let thousands more go with a warning. 'nough said.