Laterals

[Flying Pig]

OK...Ive been on this site for a while, and have always been respectful. Being a Deputy Sheriff, I work close with the CHP often, and I have never gotten into the who is better nonsense. That being said...

Why is the CHP the only Department in the State who does not accept laterals? With some kind of condensed academy? Ive been a cop for 8 years, worked dope, traffic, SWAT, aviation......I can even bust out a mean 11-80.

Not to sound harsh, but Im looking for answers from officers. Especially officers who came from prior agencies. I was involved with recruiting, and this topic comes up a lot. I know that any one of us couldnt apply, but there is not a department in the state who has not recognized the value in lateral recruitment.

I love my current agency, but have several friends who would be gone tomorrow to the CHP, but they are not about to go to a live in academy for 6 months, yelling "Yes Sir" "OOOORAAAH" after several years already on the street. What is the reason behind CHP's resistance to lateral recruitment. Please dont give me the best in the state, superior training stuff either. Ive been around to long for that!

[schutzpolizei]

CHP is not the only department that doesn't accept laterals, though. Some departments say they accept them, but still require them to go throught the full academy/FT0 program. SFPD is one example...I think they just cut the requirement to take the full POST final (really not much of a difference). All in all, I think it comes down to liability. The state wants to make sure everyone has the exact same training and are indoctrinated with the CHP's policies. Most officers know POST academies can differ dramatically, from CHP to LAPD to a community college. I agree a condensed academy would probably work for the department, but apparently the need has never been that great to warrant one.

[retchp]

I agree with the above answer to your inquiry. It would only make sense for CHP to be able to skim some cream from allied agencies, but they just never have.
I do know a CHP officer that is trying to lateral to DOJ (also a state agency) and it is taking forever with one hoop after another for him to jump through, even though they are "desperate" for agents according to his BI at DOJ. Maybe it is just how the state operates???
A guy in my Academy class quit on graduation day and signed on with Sac SO and he had to go through their entire Academy. Was not given credit for his CHP Academy training at all. Go figure.

[ORI# 1976]

LA Sheriff and LAPD both have a "Lateral Academy" for officers wanting to join their department. With 3% at 50, all agencies are hurting for more cops these days. A state agency like CHP is crazy for not taking lateral applicants. I know I will be one of the first to submit an application when the CHP begins to take them. El Centro (Imperial County) station here I come!

[Welpe]

Just a hint, the CHP is continuously taking applications right now. :biggrin:

[Darth Choke]

not that laterals will EVER EVER EVER happen in the CHP (due to "77 years of tradition, unhindered by progress) but...

What if? What would that do to seniority? Would new CHP (from other depts just keep their years as if they had been CHP years - that would be difficult with the current CHP badge #s wouldn't it? They would have to sqeeze badge #s between two sequential badges - i.e. : 15442 and 15443 (15442b ?? )

I don't know if Chippies would take to laterals well at all. There is something to be said knowing we all came from the same place, slept in the same beds, bled and sweat on the same floor.

I assume there was probably some of these feelings when we merged w/ the state police??

[Welpe]

I would imagine the seniority issue would be handled similarly to the way it is handled elsewhere, ie the officer is at the bottom of the ladder again. We've had a few laterals at the local PD here and they have all gone to the bottom as far as seniority. Sometimes these officers have more work experience than others at the department but they joined at a later date.

[Lucky Seven]

The department was considering laterals a few years ago when recruitment was becoming more and more difficult. They were looking into a modified academy.

For some reason they dropped the whole concept and continued with the current recruitment and academy process. As recruitment becomes more difficult I would think (hope) that they will entertain a lateral recruitment plan again.

[FuelInjection09]

Speaking of laterals, LAPD is giving entry officers an automatic 5 years seniority if they lateral from LASO or some other qualified agency. If anyone's desperate for recruits it's them. Have you guys seen all their new billboards and elaborate commercials? Sheesh.

[Tom]

We (CHP) have already done something similar - when the State Police was absorbed they went to a modified Academy and their badge numbers were just added "in line." They are the approx. 14000 -14300 ID's. It can be done and I don't know why we don't do it. I know my wifes Academy had 4 days of Vehicle Code and three days of Accident Investigation.

Tom

[Flying Pig]

Who knows....you have to admit though, the whole ...."We all came from the same place" argument pretty well fizzles out after a couple of years. Unless you guys walk around telling academy stories all night? The department I work for has people from acedemies throughout the state, I really cant remember the last time I asked someone which academy they went to, or felt a "special bond" with someone who attended mine. As far as seniority goes, its pretty much as given that when you lateral, you lose your seniority. I dont know of any that allow you to keep your seniority time.. Some allow you to transfer vacation, sick or comp, but not seniority.

[Darth Choke]

"We all came from the same place" argument pretty well fizzles out after a couple of years.

No, no it does not fizzle out.

I really cant remember the last time I asked someone which academy they went to, or felt a "special bond" with someone who attended mine.

Because you have not experienced being part of the CHP where EVERYONE went through the same experience. I am not trying to be mystical or arrogant. I am not trying to sound "my training can beat up your training". That is not what I mean AT ALL.

But unless you have experienced the CHP Academy and work w/ others who have experienced the same academy ... well, I just can't explain it fully.

[Flying Pig]

I can count on one hand the amount of times someone has asked me about the academy I went to. And I can tell you it has NEVER come up on a call. Last time I was hunkered behind the armored car on a SWAT call, I dont think anyone was talking about the lack of any bond. When my beat partner and I were being shot at during a pursuit, I dont recall him radioing me to confirm which academy I graduated from. It was the 6 month FTO program that taught me more than any academy. Yeah....My FTO was just as long as the academy, and all of us in that FTO came from different academies. And being on a regional SWAT, we all came from different departments as well, and worked very well together.

Sooo...Darth....dont insult me by assuming that because I did not attend your academy that I do not understand the bond of training and working and fighting together. I understand it very well. The academy is a sheltered, scheduled regim. Bonds are formed facing it for real, not in some supervised scenario. Im sorry if you have not passed the phase of telling academy stories. But coming from a 1000 member department where the deputies come from a variety of beginings, I can tell you.....when it hits the fan, nobody cares. Your acedmy must really be something!

[Nonsequitur]

Why is the CHP the only Department in the State who does not accept laterals? With some kind of condensed academy? Ive been a cop for 8 years, worked dope, traffic, SWAT, aviation......I can even bust out a mean 11-80.

CHP is not the only department that doesn't accept laterals, though. Some departments say they accept them, but still require them to go throught the full academy/FT0 program. SFPD is one example...

Schutzpolizei is correct CHP is not the only agency that requires the whole she-bang... When I went through the academy I did it with a 12 year veteran of the LAPD. Our Department dies it as a cost saving measure. Unlike the CHP, we don't get that much lateral interest, and as such it is easier for our Department to just put the laterals in with the regular recruits.

Although, I am sure, that I would not want to attend another academy after doing it twice already.

[schutzpolizei]

Sooo...Darth....dont insult me by assuming that because I did not attend your academy that I do not understand the bond of training and working and fighting together. I understand it very well. The academy is a sheltered, scheduled regim. Bonds are formed facing it for real, not in some supervised scenario. Im sorry if you have not passed the phase of telling academy stories. But coming from a 1000 member department where the deputies come from a variety of beginings, I can tell you.....when it hits the fan, nobody cares. Your acedmy must really be something!

The CHP is very heavy on departmental-specific policies. I honestly can't say if other agencies place as heavy an emphasis on it as we do, but we've got a ton. First day of the academy we received like a 3-foot stack of departmental manuals. Do other academies give you the same thing? Probably not, unless it is a department-specific academy (SFPD, LAPD etc). That being said, I do remember some instructors relating that is is better to start with a new recruit rather than someone who might have learned "bad habits" elsewhere. Not saying they are right, but they have a point. With emphasis on DUI, collision investigation and EVOC, you will simply not receive the same level of training at another academy. It's all about liability, and as Nonsequitur said, probably about cost too.

[Darth Choke]

I contemplated for a few hours deciding if your response was even worthy of a response. I am going against my better belief and responding.

Let's jump back a few posts...okay?
you have to admit though, the whole ...."We all came from the same place" argument pretty well fizzles out after a couple of years.

I was responding to your statement "you have to admit" and it fizzles out. I am telling you it does not.

Im sorry if you have not passed the phase of telling academy stories.

Well...let me see. I routinely talk to officers with 10, 15, 20, 25, 35+ years on. We still talk about the academy, the instructors, the food, the running, the UNEQUALED PT sessions, etc.

You, my friend decided to NOT read my first post when I stated:

I am not trying to be mystical or arrogant. I am not trying to sound "my training can beat up your training". That is not what I mean AT ALL.

Did you READ that statement?


The department accepting laterals is not all about the academy experience. I am sorry if you think it is.

But, it was/is a starting ground/foundation all the Chippies have in common which is talked about all the time either in the car on graveyards w/ your partner, in the debriefing room while finishing reports for the day, in briefing while the Sgt is laying out the plans for the day, etc...

No cop learns his job at the academy. They learn it on the road. Don't insult ME by changing my purpose and meaning of my previous posts.

The CHP Academy serves its purpose. Some of it you take with you ( a lot of it), some of it you leave there.

This thread is about discussing laterals from other depts, not whose academy is better or that I still get warm fuzzies over my academy experience because I am an FNG (only 2 1/2 years on). There are plenty of retired Chippies on here who KNOW our Academy is unequaled and modeled after around the country.

Yes, yes,....MY academy really was and is something. Ask around.

[Tom]

I don't think that people understand the bond of some things......unless they are involved with them. I liken this to my submarine service, tight-knit, well trained group of guys. Only the submarine guys "knew" the "submarine" bond. Same with the CHP Academy. My question to those who want to lateral....Why the heck didn't you do it in the first place? I have NEVER thought of going to another agency. I guess I don't get it.

Tom

[retchp]

Hey!!:cry: I like both of you guys (Darth and Pig). Stop picking on each other:smile: You both make and have good points as usual. It is difficult to not take things personally on a Board when someone challenges a post or a position of yours. I know that from experience.
As to the issue itself, Darth said something in his last post about retired chippies and their knowing and remembering the Academy and talking about it etc. That is true. Just an example...on September 30th, 1974 about an hour after arriving I got my ass chewed so badly I almost started crying, and I was a military veteran. I have told the complete story many times. It has been almost 32 years. I still hate the staff officer even though he is dead and remember it like it just happened. But it did teach me a lesson...this was going to be a tough experience!
Still, it would be nice to take lateral cream from other departments and incorporate them in with no CHP seniority and a limited Academy of some sort to include whipping or keeping them in shape with PT. Maybe go a little lighter on the BS factor though.

[CRW]

I can vouch for what Tom wrote. I don't even know him and I spent many many nights on three different subs out of Pearl from 94 till 2000. What boats were you on? Tautog, Tucson, and Los Angeles here.

[Tom]

Dude, I was on the terrible T!!!!!! From 1990 to 1993 L-div LPO. Before that I was on the Pintado. Cool - small world. Who was your skipper on the Tautog?

Tom

I think my COB from the Tautog came from the 688......but I can't remember his name CRS!!!!!

[Soon2BCHP]

Woah more Sailors here. lol. thats great! Abe Lincoln here. I'm sure you guys got some great stories. OH and BTW I know this is a tarded question but what exactly is laterals? I've been reading this thread and cant really figure it out. Is it an officer w/another agency that wants to transfer to CHP but doesnt want to do the academy?

[Soon2BCHP]

I don't think that people understand the bond of some things......unless they are involved with them. I liken this to my submarine service, tight-knit, well trained group of guys. Only the submarine guys "knew" the "submarine" bond. Same with the CHP Academy. My question to those who want to lateral....Why the heck didn't you do it in the first place? I have NEVER thought of going to another agency. I guess I don't get it.

Tom

I know what you mean Tom. I know exactly what you mean about the bond. Good times

[Welpe]

Woah more Sailors here. lol. thats great! Abe Lincoln here. I'm sure you guys got some great stories. OH and BTW I know this is a tarded question but what exactly is laterals? I've been reading this thread and cant really figure it out. Is it an officer w/another agency that wants to transfer to CHP but doesnt want to do the academy?

Laterals are officers getting hired by another department without having to repeat the entire academy. They might have to do a few weeks of training, but not the whole academy.

[Tom]

Welcome to SQUID central. I love it!!!! Remember the Marines are the in the Department of the Navy!!!!! (I have purposely left out joke here)

Tom

[Flying Pig]

The Mens Department

[Tom]

Close -add Wo :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :biggrin:

Since I can edit I have a disclaimer - my wife is a former Marine (I said former - there is only one ex-marine) and she is a current LEO who could probably whip my behind.

Tom

[CRW]

Terrible T! I haven't heard that in years. Byus was the CO and Diemer was the XO when I checked onboard in August 94. I think the COB you are talking about was STSCM Runnels. He was a huge SOB but a great guy though. I was on her till decom then I did a short stint on Tucson before I transferred over to the Los Angeles. We probably know alot of the same people. Buck Sheets ring a bell? It is a small world. CRW

[Tom]

It was Runnels!!!!!! He reported right before I left! Wow, that is cool. Don't know a Sheets but how about Riordan, Love or Goussy - they were all ELT"s - like moi.

Dude what a small world - we need to stay in touch and tell some sea story - no sh!^^#$@!!!

Tom

[CRW]

None of those ring a bell. I remember a Facello (EMC), McElhinney was a nuc, EMCS Amick, Chase, Joe Epplett, and Bearman were M div, Toft was E div, . I was an ST (shower tech) so I mostly remember forward guys. Like ETC Kidwell and Peterson. I had a ton of fun on that boat. I just dug out my ship's qual card. Most of it signed off while on West Pac. Being a NUB on pac and cranking in the Phillipines (which you probably didn't have to do) :lol: . Yeah there were some experiences on that boat (alot of which can never be printed, only talked about in hushed tones) ;)
CRW

[Soon2BCHP]

None of those ring a bell. I remember a Facello (EMC), McElhinney was a nuc, EMCS Amick, Chase, Joe Epplett, and Bearman were M div, Toft was E div, . I was an ST (shower tech) so I mostly remember forward guys. Like ETC Kidwell and Peterson. I had a ton of fun on that boat. I just dug out my ship's qual card. Most of it signed off while on West Pac. Being a NUB on pac and cranking in the Phillipines (which you probably didn't have to do) :lol: . Yeah there were some experiences on that boat (alot of which can never be printed, only talked about in hushed tones) ;)
CRW

LOL @ Cranking. Man I havent seen talk or heard talk like that in a long time. Brings back memories. I hear you on the hushed tones CRW. Good times though.

[Soon2BCHP]

Woah more Sailors here. lol. thats great! Abe Lincoln here. I'm sure you guys got some great stories. OH and BTW I know this is a tarded question but what exactly is laterals? I've been reading this thread and cant really figure it out. Is it an officer w/another agency that wants to transfer to CHP but doesnt want to do the academy?

Laterals are officers getting hired by another department without having to repeat the entire academy. They might have to do a few weeks of training, but not the whole academy.

Gotcha thanks Welpe.

[Soon2BCHP]

Anything interesting happen on WESPAC? I know you guys were on Subs. scary stories, etc.

[Tom]

If I told you I would have to kill you. Operation Regal Spear and all. Sorry. Naw - we just went around and punched holes in the water, no big deal. Hey Soon2B, every time you say "Good Times" I think of that NPR skit on SNL and I start to laugh - ever seen the skit with Alec Baldwin? Funny stuff.

CRW - The only ST I remember was Ellis. And I remember Toft.......earth to Toft, earth to Toft.....pheww.

Tom - MM1/SS/DV

[makakona]

I can vouch for what Tom wrote. I don't even know him and I spent many many nights on three different subs out of Pearl from 94 till 2000. What boats were you on? Tautog, Tucson, and Los Angeles here.

ahh... pearl! that was my absolute FAVORITE! i miss it so much...

[Soon2BCHP]

I can vouch for what Tom wrote. I don't even know him and I spent many many nights on three different subs out of Pearl from 94 till 2000. What boats were you on? Tautog, Tucson, and Los Angeles here.

ahh... pearl! that was my absolute FAVORITE! i miss it so much...

Pear was Hot! But the 1 month we spent in Australia is by far the best place and most memoral i've been too!

[makakona]

I can vouch for what Tom wrote. I don't even know him and I spent many many nights on three different subs out of Pearl from 94 till 2000. What boats were you on? Tautog, Tucson, and Los Angeles here.

ahh... pearl! that was my absolute FAVORITE! i miss it so much...

Pear was Hot! But the 1 month we spent in Australia is by far the best place and most memoral i've been too!

granted i didn't do any of the travelling the saialors do, haha... but we lived in pearl harbor (no, really... IN the harbor... on ford island!) for three years and i just adored it. i was so sad to leave.

my husband was an east coast sailor when he was sea-going, so he never made it to australia. his favorites were dubai, greece, and turkey.

[CRW]

Tom,
Yeah, I remember Ellis. He left right after we got back from the 95 WestPac. Fondly remembered for going power to ground on the towed array handling system which fried every ckt card and the towed array (million plus). Funny thing, Toft has his own website and he hasn't changed a bit. I saw it awhile back. He's a network security god from what it said and he has a portion directed towards sub life.