I wonder where the cadets went???

[retchp]

Hmmm, you know who is conspicuously missing from this site? resQpilot and Nellie. I bet the staff got to them about posting here.
In a way I don't like that because this is supposed to be a site that has some responsibility in mentoring future cadets.
As long as they were just reporting and not giving away any secret squirrel stuff I think it was a good thing that they continued to post and give updates even after entering the Academy.
I suppose that a staff services officer monitoring this site could really make it tough on some poor cadet.
By the way, is the purpose of the Academy to turn out officers or to wash out cadets? When I was an instructor in the Army we had a slogan at our school...If the student failed to learn, you failed to teach...We were charged with turning out soldiers who could operate radios in combat, not to scream at people for no real reason.

[SB 405]

You're correct ret. They were told to stop posting.

[TheForceCHP]

this is sad news. i hope they didn't get into any big trouble and i also hope that they are eventually allowed to post again

[SB 405]

this is sad news. i hope they didn't get into any big trouble and i also hope that they are eventually allowed to post againI wouldn't expect to hear from the guys again until sometime in April.

[Mac]

By the way, is the purpose of the Academy to turn out officers or to wash out cadets?
Both, IMO. While their main job is to turn cadets into officers, there are some people who sneak through the hiring process who do not "pack the gear" to go out on the road as officers - and I'm more than happy to see the Academy wash them out and get rid of them. As stringent as the hiring process is, it still doesn't weed out every one of the undesirables...and I'd rather see them axed in the Academy than make them the Area FTOs' responsibilities. In the field they become a major drain of time and valuable resources.

...When I was an instructor in the Army we had a slogan at our school...If the student failed to learn, you failed to teach...
I'd agree with that for the most part - but there are some people who don't have either the proper attitude or attributes to be a law enforcement officer. Let's face it, this job isn't for everybody - and there are some who just "won't get it", no matter HOW good the instructors are.

[Cameron]

Darn. I enjoyed reading their posts, too. Oh, well!

[KingFrankSam]

By the way, is the purpose of the Academy to turn out officers or to wash out cadets?

I don't think that those two functions are mutually exclusive. In fact, I believe that in order to turn out quality officers, there are those that need to be washed out. As you are well aware, not everyone has what it takes to work the road, and as Mac pointed out, the initial hiring process can not weed out all who don't belong. The hiring process is not over when the cadet receives his/her Academy invite, it is actually just beginning. The Academy is the second part of the hiring process, with break-in and probation finishing it off. An officer is not considered permanent until their one year probationary period is finalized. There are several that wash out during break-in and probation as well. Usually it is for their own safety and the safety of others if they are dismissed during probation.

The main problem today is not the number that are washing out, but the lack of quality candidates in the hiring pool. As has been previously mentioned on this forum, there seems to be an "entitlement generation" thing happening that is, for lack of a better term, spoiling alot of the young adults today (just writing that makes me feel old, I am in my mid-30's). Also, a large portion of our typical hiring pool is currently overseas, fighting in the desert. This is making it difficult for several agencies to recruit good candidates.

The Academy is increasing the class sizes from the current 90 to around 125 for at least the next two classes. Hopefully, they will not have to lower the hiring standards in order to fill the larger classes. I know that the Academy will not lower its standards in order to lower the attrition rate.

[Mac]

BTW - Just as a sidebar point of discussion, the last graduating class broke into 18000 ID numbers!

[retchp]

Yeah, I know you guys are right about needing to drop no loads before they hit the field. I just liked hearing from those two. Kind of a vicarious revisit to the Academy I guess. Anyway I guess we will find out about them and some of the other new officers when they graduate.
I sure wish there had been an intenet and a forum like this twenty five or thirty years ago. Used properly it gives an applicant so much information that can be helpful in decision making, and how to act etc.
Turned the corner on 18000 did they... I remember when the old guys used to laugh at my ID number. Asked me if it was a VIN on a Volkswagon:smile:

[KingFrankSam]

Yeah, I know you guys are right about needing to drop no loads before they hit the field. I just liked hearing from those two. Kind of a vicarious revisit to the Academy I guess. Anyway I guess we will find out about them and some of the other new officers when they graduate.
I sure wish there had been an intenet and a forum like this twenty five or thirty years ago. Used properly it gives an applicant so much information that can be helpful in decision making, and how to act etc.
Turned the corner on 18000 did they... I remember when the old guys used to laugh at my ID number. Asked me if it was a VIN on a Volkswagon:smile:

retchp, when was the last time you visited the Academy? You should take a trip down there and observe the training.

[KingFrankSam]

Yeah, I know you guys are right about needing to drop no loads before they hit the field. I just liked hearing from those two. Kind of a vicarious revisit to the Academy I guess. Anyway I guess we will find out about them and some of the other new officers when they graduate.
I sure wish there had been an intenet and a forum like this twenty five or thirty years ago. Used properly it gives an applicant so much information that can be helpful in decision making, and how to act etc.
Turned the corner on 18000 did they... I remember when the old guys used to laugh at my ID number. Asked me if it was a VIN on a Volkswagon:smile:

retchp, when was the last time you visited the Academy? You should take a trip down there and observe the training.

(Posted too soon) I would love to hear about what has changed and what hasn't. Did you go through the Meadowview Academy?

[PharmGirl]

LOL this makes me laugh...yes the staff at the academy puts great FEAR into the cadets..in fact that is the VERY reason why my husband STILL doesn't like me to post on the boards..(its tough being your own person tho LOL)

Tho the history of the previous board...one wife posted a bit too much info and the Cadet - well lets just say...he wasn't like baseboard anymore (you know always there and going unnoticed) I know a few applicants had posted about 'what great shape' they were in and once the PT staff saw that hheeheeee they couldn't wait to meet those new Cadets LOL.


I miss the guys too tho....

[retchp]

Yes, I went through Meadowview. I did work in various Valley Division offices up until 1998 and have been at the "new" Academy many times. I also often buy Xmas gifts at the PX since so many people like the items with CHP logos on them like the stuffed animals and T shirts etc. The training there is awesome and almost twice as long as back in the day.
With all the new responsibilities an officer has now I don't know how they handle it or keep it straight. My hat is off to the entire process from applicant through end of career.

[KingFrankSam]

Yes, I went through Meadowview. I did work in various Valley Division offices up until 1998 and have been at the "new" Academy many times. I also often buy Xmas gifts at the PX since so many people like the items with CHP logos on them like the stuffed animals and T shirts etc. The training there is awesome and almost twice as long as back in the day.
With all the new responsibilities an officer has now I don't know how they handle it or keep it straight. My hat is off to the entire process from applicant through end of career.

And my hat's off to you for being where I would like to be in 20 years.

[Lucky Seven]

BTW - Just as a sidebar point of discussion, the last graduating class broke into 18000 ID numbers!



Damn, I'm getting old.

[WinnieI05]

I had warned ResQ that there may be reprecussions for posting here. My seniors were stuck doing brass an extra 5 or 6 weeks simply because a cadet posted on the other site that the academy wasn't to bad except for doing brass. I didn't mind them being stuck with it! Anyways, if he caught hell for it, so be it. He was warned...

WinnieI05

PS My class washed out 3 more that didn't make it off break-in. Just an FYI.

[SB 405]

Winnie,I don't think he caught "hell" or anything else for that matter. From what he says he was simply told to stop. Pretty easy instruction to follow in my book.

[warriorsn]

Question? I am in the applicaiton portion of the hiring process and I was wondering about the whole wash-out thing. How does the whole thing work. Coming from the USAF I know the it was difficult to get washed out at Basic, because if you did it refected badly on the TI. I think one out of my flight of 40 never made it to their first duty station. But that was becase they stole from the B while at Tech School.

My question is, are people being washed out because they quit, or are they told to leave. If they are told to leave, is it academics, PT, or what?

WARRIORSN

[Mac]

My question is, are people being washed out because they quit, or are they told to leave. If they are told to leave, is it academics, PT, or what?
Both, and both. Some quit because they can't handle the stress and/or rigor of the academy, or they get injured and can't continue (in which case they can usually "recycle" into a later class). Others wash out for various reasons - usually academics, driving or shooting. We started with 150 cadets and graduated 100 - some quit, others washed out, but that is fully 1/3 of the class that didn't graduate for one reason or the other.

[warriorsn]

My question is, are people being washed out because they quit, or are they told to leave. If they are told to leave, is it academics, PT, or what?
Both, and both. Some quit because they can't handle the stress and/or rigor of the academy, or they get injured and can't continue (in which case they can usually "recycle" into a later class). Others wash out for various reasons - usually academics, driving or shooting. We started with 150 cadets and graduated 100 - some quit, others washed out, but that is fully 1/3 of the class that didn't graduate for one reason or the other.

MAC...

When I was at basic, I was led to believe that I would not just up and leave. I believe they fed you this so that your fellow trainees could count on you.

Warriorsn

[DESERT RAT]

Hey Warriorsn, I went to the same basic training you did at Lackland. The basic you went to in Lackland cannot compare to
"Camp Snoopy". For Starters, USAF basic is what 8 weeks? I forget, its been 13yrs since I was there. "Camp Snoopy" is 27 weeks!
The only thing that was useful that I learned from the USAF basic was: How to fold shirts, How to shine boots, and How to say "Yes Sir".
The physical, mental, and academic stress of "Camp Snoopy" is never ending(while you are there).

As far as quiting or being asked to resign. My roommate resigned in week 22, it was either resign or be fired! You commented about your basic and how they told you, you would not just up and leave, so your fellow trainees would know they could trust you.
"Camp Snoopy" staff strive to make you quit! and strive to make you better! Hypothetically you could spend several years trying to get into the academy, quit your job, move your family to west Sac, and get fired the first week or the 27th week, during break-in, 1 st year of probation. Nothing is guaranteed except that it is gonna be hard, and if you dont come away from the experience saying
"That was the hardest thing I have ever done" then you are the exception.

Having said all of this, I am in no way saying you can not make it. What I am saying is, if you compare your experience at Lackland to what you think "Camp Snoopy" is gonna be like. You will be sadly mistaken. Start preparing physically, Academically now, it will give you a leg up and it does help with the stress. Good luck!

[warriorsn]

DR,

Well I really do not have much to say about your response other than I went through Basic durnig Sept 11th as an element leader and graduated as an honor grad. You want to talk about stress. Try being at a simulated forward deployed location and being told that the country has become under attack and all you can do is stand there and look dumbfounded.

My whole point came through when you stated that the staff tries to make you quit. I was trying to gain that type of insight.

The question that I have to ask is what kind of stress are they putting you through? I do not think that the AF puts the stress on the same type of stuff that other branches and LE agencies do.

Can you give me some examples of why people quit or are asked to resign? I am very curious about this. The recruiter I spoke with said that most people that don't make it because their family was not prepared.

Lastly I am up to 3 miles a day, at least 3 days week @ a 8.5 mph pace... I am in my senior of college having just taken an upper-level writing course. I made SSgt in 3.5 years, first time testing.

In closing, I would like to say thanks for you candor on this subject. Also, if you have any suggestions or other comments please let me know, as they can only help me at this point.

WARRIORSN

AMMO!

[Mac]

The question that I have to ask is what kind of stress are they putting you through?
The physical stress of intensive PT; the mental stress of a lot of yelling coupled with strict attention to detail, tight discipline and intensive demands of your time and attention; and the academic stress of a lot of subject matter being thrown at you and a lot of tests that you have to pass.....all at once, so it's cumulative. I think anybody who's been through the CHP Academy, regardless of their background, will tell you that it was a very stressful experience....more so for some than others.

Can you give me some examples of why people quit or are asked to resign? I am very curious about this. The recruiter I spoke with said that most people that don't make it because their family was not prepared.
The family thing is definitely a factor - if you or your spouse can't handle you being away from home for that amount of time and it creates pressure, it can definitely be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Some people resign because they just can't handle the mental and/or physical stress; others flunk out because they can't write well enough, can't assimilate the material well enough to pass the tests, or can't shoot/drive well enough (you can flunk out of the Academy on both range and EVOC). You won't be asked to resign, per se.....if you fail an aspect of instruction and aren't successful in remediating, you'll be flunked out - there's no "asking" about it.

[warriorsn]

Thanks MAC that was exactly what I was looking for; an insight with not only opinion, but facts.

WARRIORSN

[Chippysgt]

Thanks MAC that was exactly what I was looking for; an insight with not only opinion, but facts.

WARRIORSN

You will do fine Warrior. Just remember that God gave you two ears and one mouth and he had something in mind when he did that.

Keep focused and think about the pride, integrity and guts that will carry you through the next thirty years!


Brian
Retired CHP Sergeant
Former SAC Warrior

[makakona]

Well I really do not have much to say about your response other than I went through Basic durnig Sept 11th as an element leader and graduated as an honor grad. You want to talk about stress. Try being at a simulated forward deployed location and being told that the country has become under attack and all you can do is stand there and look dumbfounded.

Lastly I am up to 3 miles a day, at least 3 days week @ a 8.5 mph pace... I am in my senior of college having just taken an upper-level writing course. I made SSgt in 3.5 years, first time testing.


:::trying to maintain some form of anonymity, haha:::

my husband made was in the military as well, though a branch that's only slightly less "cushy" than the af... ;) he made e6 at four years in, was a nuclear rector mechanic (have to have brains for that there stuff!), and is a very driven, motivated, and determined guy. as much as he tried to prepare for the academy... there just isn't any preparation that does it justice. people ask if it was similar to boot and he just laughs, shakes his head, and says they won't understand until they're actually there. i can't imagine that he'll ever do anything more mentally, emotionally, and physically challenging in his life.

prepare as much as you can... then be prepared to not be prepared. :biggrin:

[Tom]

was a nuclear rector mechanic

Another Navy Nuke!!! How about it for the USN! We will outnumber those jarheads before long!!!:badgrin:

Tom - MM1/SS/DV

[warriorsn]

I hear the USN makes rank quick. I told one of my HS friends that I made E-4 (SrA Airman) early, at about 2 years and he laughed. The fastest you can make E-6 in the AF is 6 years no matter what. I'll never see that. I think I might test, but the results will come out right at the end of my enlistment.

makakona... I like you comment to prepare not to be prepared. At least that may get me in a different mindset than the "know-it-all" I seem to be portraying!! :-)


WARRIORSN

[SB 405]

Oh yeah we've got our own forum "know it all" and trust me,your safe.;)

[Your Mentor]

Academy staff telling any cadet they can't post here really angers me. The fact is, NO ONE on this department has the authority to give that kind of direction. It isn't covered under policy, Government Code, MOU, or past practice. It also sends a horrible message. As long as they don't divulge confidential material in manuals, they, legally and professionally, are free to engage in ANY community they see fit.

[SB 405]

Academy staff telling any cadet they can't post here really angers me. The fact is, NO ONE on this department has the authority to give that kind of direction. It isn't covered under policy, Government Code, MOU, or past practice. It also sends a horrible message. As long as they don't divulge confidential material in manuals, they, legally and professionally, are free to engage in ANY community they see fit.That's what I like about you Mentor...layin out on the line. I for one wish the guys would still post but don't blame them for standing down if that's what they were told.

[schutzpolizei]

I remember them telling us "if you have time to play on the internet, then you should know everything" about policy, brevity codes, whatever, etc. They picked a couple of guys out they thought (or knew) were posting and proceeded to grill them at the staff office. They have a point I guess...but then again it's not too bright to make it obvious who you are on the site as a cadet.:rolleyes:

[makakona]

I hear the USN makes rank quick. I told one of my HS friends that I made E-4 (SrA Airman) early, at about 2 years and he laughed. The fastest you can make E-6 in the AF is 6 years no matter what. I'll never see that. I think I might test, but the results will come out right at the end of my enlistment.

makakona... I like you comment to prepare not to be prepared. At least that may get me in a different mindset than the "know-it-all" I seem to be portraying!! :-)


WARRIORSN

not necessarily... while my husband made first with four years in, we have friends who RETIRED as e5s. "choose your rate, choose your fate." i think nukes are the only rate that advance that quickly...

[warriorsn]

It's very difficult for Nuke Pukes to make rank in the AF... there's fierce competition. On a side note to that, all my friends who worked Nukes (2W2) had only girls, no boys for children. Weird!!

WARRIORSN

[makakona]

It's very difficult for Nuke Pukes to make rank in the AF... there's fierce competition. On a side note to that, all my friends who worked Nukes (2W2) had only girls, no boys for children. Weird!!

WARRIORSN

my brain is working slowly tonight... what do nuke "pukes" :rolleyes: do in the air force?

<--- mother of two girls. :::groan::: out of all of the guys my husband worked with on the carrier, only TWO had any boys. CRAZY!