Rules Of Pursuit Engagement

[SB 405]

I was listening to a persuit this afternoon on my scanner envolving the LAPD of a stolen vehicle. The pursuit lasted about 45 minutes and entered and exited three different freeways (along with surface streets). Each time they entered a freeway the lead LAPD unit would say "notify CHP but advise we are still primary" So my question...Does CHP need to wait before the primary PD makes a request for you to take over the pursuit? Or do you just keep an ear on what's happening whenever they enter a freeway? I've seen some pursuits go for hours on a freeway and I assume you take those over because many times they end up miles (if not hundreds of miles) from the starting point and you can hand it off from office to office.

[dw]

SB, to answer your question fully would go into policies that are designated as confidential and not for public disclosure. (We have to keep some secrets ;) ) I will say that a peace officer in California is a peace officer with the same powers, regardless of location. As such, a local agency can make a stop (or end up in a pursuit) on the freeways, and we can make stops (or end up in a pursuit) on city streets. It also follows common sense that if a local PD is in a pursuit headed towards our primary jurisdiction, we're aware and planning accordingly -- the same should be true if we have a pursuit that heads into city streets. Bottom line is that we all work together. We may provide air support for another agency, or use another agencies air support to help us, etc...

[SB 405]

Okay dw,good enough. I didn't realize I was getting into an area that's out of bounds but once again I learn something without really being told anything (sounds strange but you get my drift) I did see this pursuit on my local news tonight so I guess it was a pretty big deal.

[dw]

SB, FYI, most policies & procedures relating to "officer safety" and tactics are confidential. These include how we respond to calls, make stops, take people into custody, etc... Public knowledge of these procedures could jeopardize our effectiveness or safety.

If you're really interested, many of our policy manuals are available to the public through the publications unit in Sacramento. Often, they will be sanitized with some portions deleted, but much is public. (Or you could always pick up an application at your local office!)

[SB 405]

Not really that big a deal to me dw I just heard it yesterday and it got me thinkin'. I was just wondering the when,where and why's of pursuit policy but if that's taboo I understand. It's interesting to hear how an air unit calls the prusuit while keeping an eye on the suspect,watching cross traffic for the police units as well as what's going on in the air around them such as news helicopters etc..multi tasking at it's finest.

[Your Mentor]

SB, to add to dw's post without disclosing tactics, you have to understand that there is significant civil liability attached to pursuits and so one agency isn't anxious to take over a pursuit from an agency who started one.

[SB 405]

Oh I can understand that in today's sue happy world. We had a pursuit down here last weekend where a local police department was in pursuit of a vehicle and the suspect vehicle hit another vehicle killing a three year old little boy. I would guess pursuits are one of the more dangerous parts of police work. And someone better come out with something other than the spike strip to end them faster.

[Your Mentor]

I agree SB. Several years ago, a company was trying to develope an electromagnetic pulse device which officers could aim at a fleeing vehicle and disable its electrical system. It never paned out. They actually showed some footage on Discovery Channel of another device that was deployed from under the front bumper of a police car via rockets. It shot forward and passed under the pursued vehicle where a protruding wire lead would touch the underbody metal and short out the electrical system. So far, nothing has worked. So pursuits remain a problem. Some officers are addicted to the adrenalin rush that goes along with them. A toddler's death should be enough to sober up any rookie about the seriousness of engaging in pursuits.

[SB 405]

All I know is the first person who can invent a device that is affordable,reliable and safe is going to make a pretty penny.

[Mac]

You are 100% correct. I'm sure the technology would be adopted immediately by virtually every law enforcement agency if it met all of those criteria.

Some officers are addicted to the adrenalin rush that goes along with them. A toddler's death should be enough to sober up any rookie about the seriousness of engaging in pursuits.
Absolutely right. While a pursuit is definitely an adrenaline rush, they're also very serious business, and can have disastrous consequences. I think a no-pursuit policy as adopted by some agencies is a bad move and a cop-out, but there's got to be a better way. A no-pursuit policy is simply shying away from what we're supposed to be doing - catching bad guys and putting them in jail. It also creates an incentive for criminals to flee in a reckless manner if they know that doing so will cause police to simply let them go.

What gets my goat is when you see the news or the public blaming the law enforcement agency for the outcome when a pursuit goes bad.....how about placing the blame where it lies - with the idiot criminal who chose to flee?

[SB 405]

Yes Mac but you know the media loves to focus on the public crying out about Police chasing people for not stopping at a stop sign,tail light out etc...

[Your Mentor]

I can't tell you how often people take off after you catch them running a stop sign . . . The media often fails to point out that there's almost always a defined reason behind fleeing. They never report later that the suspect turned out to have no priors, the vehicle belonged to him or her and they just didn't want to get a ticket. The suspect or the car almost ALWAYS ends up being wanted or the suspect is DUI.

[14596]

"Your Mentor", Dr. Bill Wattenberg who has a talk show on KGO-radio designed such a pursuit stopping device and primarily designed it for big-rigs.

http://www.kgoam810.com/viewentry.asp?ID=336824&PT=PERSONALITIES

[FuelInjection09]

It doesn't tell the specifics of how the device works, but I bet is has something to do with cutting fuel to the engine.

[4CHP]

"Your Mentor", Dr. Bill Wattenberg who has a talk show on KGO-radio designed such a pursuit stopping device and primarily designed it for big-rigs.

http://www.kgoam810.com/viewentry.asp?ID=336824&PT=PERSONALITIES

When I was in SF, I remember seeing a video on the local news where the CHP tested the "truck stopping device" at the Oakland Coliseum. I believe this is the video...

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/truckstoppingdevice-del041012.html

[propeller26]

I was on the detail at the Oakland Coliseum when that device was tested. It used a contact plate attached to the rear of the trailer which was hooked into the trailer's air brakes. When the patrol vehicle's push bumper was used to ram the plate, it severed the brake lines, locking up the trailer brakes, thus bringing the truck to a stop. It seemed to work well in the demonstation. I believe the trucking associations lobbied hard in Sacramento to keep this device from becoming mandatory. I guess there just isn't enough trucks involved in pursuits to warrant the modifications.

[Your Mentor]

I saw the demo video; I think it was mandatory to see it. I couldn't understand all the focus on terminating big rig pursuits when they represent such a small number in the statistics.