CA citizen's arrest laws

[uoplax13]

I am currently working in the security department of a ski resort up in Tahoe while I go through the hiring process. Although I don't plan on having anything too crazy happen, thefts and drunk mischief aren't uncommon with employees and guests up here. I know my primary job working security up here is observation and deterence, but if it comes down to it, what are my options as far as retraining someone until the local SO or CHP can make it out? Response times take a while because of our location. So far I've been effective with dealing with people verbally, but I want to make sure that if for my safety or the safety of a fellow employee or guest I know what my options are......without putting myself in a situation where I get sued for false arrest/imprisonment, etc... Any thoughts?

[retchp]

I am currently working in the security department of a ski resort up in Tahoe while I go through the hiring process. Although I don't plan on having anything too crazy happen, thefts and drunk mischief aren't uncommon with employees and guests up here. I know my primary job working security up here is observation and deterence, but if it comes down to it, what are my options as far as retraining someone until the local SO or CHP can make it out? Response times take a while because of our location. So far I've been effective with dealing with people verbally, but I want to make sure that if for my safety or the safety of a fellow employee or guest I know what my options are......without putting myself in a situation where I get sued for false arrest/imprisonment, etc... Any thoughts?

I think your third sentence says it best. I personally would stick to exactly that unless I had plenty of available back up. there are not many things as dangerous as a drunk college boy trying to impress his friends.

[dw]

As long as you use the minimum force necessary, you should be okay in terms of lawsuits.

I'm with retchp (who has far more experience than I) -- I'd take a pretty passive role, if I were you. I'm guessing, but you probably don't have the proper training or tools to be taking people into custody. The risk is not worth is. Plus, the last thing you want to do is get injured while in the hiring process or before you go to the Academy. People don't go skiing alone, and he/she probably has you outnumbered with friends.

Do you have OC, a batton? Anything?

[uoplax13]

Thanks for the replies already. That's what I expected to hear. Right now I am working nights, and am "armed" with a radio (I can see a groomer or snowmaker running down the hill to back me up), a maglite from home, some keys, and my brain. Somehow I don't think blinding people with the flashlight and fending them off with keys is going to be very effective :smile: . I guess I'm just stuck with the brain. Being as non-confrontational as possible is my plan when I work nights, especially since I am the only security on at night. During the day I will most likely be working with one or two other guys. Normal business hours are when most of the thefts around here take place (the retail shops, or peoples' skis and snowboards sitting around). I'm sure I could figure out a reasonable approach if the situation presented itself, but in your opinions, if I'm in the situation where I catch someone stealing something, what would be a reasonable approach? I don't think saying hey, wait a minute while I call the police will work too well. Unless an SO or CHP unit happens to be close by, the response time is going to be upwards of 10+ minutes. I'm not looking to get hurt, or hurt anyone else, so is this the kind of situation where I just get as descriptive as possible and relay that information to whichever agency responds?

[uoplax13]

I just thought of another question along the same lines.....which is easy to do when you're at a resort at 3 in the morning before the season has really picked up :smile: Most of the bears up here are already hibernating so I'm not worried about them, but last season I had a mountain lion come up on my deck not to far from here in the dead of winter. With that in mind, and the encounter I just had with 3 or 4 people in one of our lots (just some guys spinning donuts in the new snow), what are the legal restrictions in CA to carrying an ASP or similar baton for a private citizen/ un-licensed security guard? It was funny, because I really didn't care that those guys were screwing around in the lot....as long as they weren't stealing anything.....I just happened to drive by and they bugged out, but if I had been walking and they had wanted to get into it, or if they had been a mountain lion (yes, I know how funny/lame this sounds), I wouldn't mind having something to beat them off (an animal or group of idiots). I certainly wouldn't use a defensive weapon like that if it was just a single person (i.e. use enough force to defend myself without going on the offensive, and a group is different) but I think you get the picture. Sorry about the long rambling posts, but at 3 in the morning when it's raining/snowing out, I make my rounds, and don't spend too much time walking around otherwise. Any more thoughts guys?

[Mac]

If you're not licensed as a security guard, carrying an ASP, baton or any other such weapon would constitute a felony under 12020 PC - probably not a real good idea for you at this particular stage. Furthermore, if you're not properly trained in the use of same, you're opening up a whole 'nother can of worms. You'd be leaving yourself wide open to be sued by whoever you used it against, and your employer most likely wouldn't go to bat for you if you weren't authorized by them to carry it...they'd say you were acting outside the scope of your employment, which would leave you dangling in the wind. In addition to all of that, what retchp said was good common sense - without backup, an ASP/baton isn't going to do you a lot of good against a bunch of guys if they decide to take you on. You might get one or two of them, but it's just a matter of time before they overpower you, take it away from you and maybe use your ASP against YOU. As officers, we avoid wading into mob scenes without backup - it's nothing more than false machismo, and a good way to get yourself seriously injured or killed.

As far as "citizen's arrest" - you can make an arrest if you see a crime committed.....but without handcuffs, restraining them until one of the local agencies arrives will be difficult. I doubt it will do much good to tell them "I'm placing you under arrest, sit right there like a good boy until the cops arrive to take you to jail".

Bottom line - as a security guard, your job is exactly what you said in your first post - observe and deter. It's not worth it to put yourself in a position that threatens your life, safety or future career over some minor offense. Be a good witness and let it go at that.

[SB 405]

We have on staff security people in our hotel and all we expect them to do is patrol the building and parking lots (be seen) and do some door knockin' if people get loud. All our guys carry a cell phone with the Hawthorne PD on speed dial and they are instructed to not get involved in anything physical (mostly drunks in this business) at any time (even if it means you run away) you call the PD and let them handle things.

[uoplax13]

It all makes sense. This forum is great for killing time when it's snowing at 3 or 4 in the morning and to cold to go walking around...... I had read that also about carrying an impact weapon being a felony just after I posted that- I just started thinking about it after seeing some of the tracks in the fresh snow last night.

[ace553]

I am currently working in the security department of a ski resort up in Tahoe while I go through the hiring process. Although I don't plan on having anything too crazy happen, thefts and drunk mischief aren't uncommon with employees and guests up here. I know my primary job working security up here is observation and deterence, but if it comes down to it, what are my options as far as retraining someone until the local SO or CHP can make it out? Response times take a while because of our location. So far I've been effective with dealing with people verbally, but I want to make sure that if for my safety or the safety of a fellow employee or guest I know what my options are......without putting myself in a situation where I get sued for false arrest/imprisonment, etc... Any thoughts?

I think your third sentence says it best. I personally would stick to exactly that unless I had plenty of available back up. there are not many things as dangerous as a drunk college boy trying to impress his friends.


i would think the use of a camera phone would also be helpful

[not5150]

I had the unfortunate pleasure of working security in my college days to buy pizza.

To carry a baton

1. You will need a guard-guard (You should already have this I think)
2. Baton Card
3. Your work has to authorize you to carry it (Get this in freakin writing!!!!)

Now just because they authorize you to carry doesn't necessarily mean you should carry one. You should be confident in how to use one and the two day class (or whatever it is up to now) is definitely not enough. Plus what other members have said about dealing with drunks is spot on. Just call the cops and don't mess with them. A drunk college boy/gal is just trouble, especially if they are with friends.

Oh on the Baton card, there is different training for straight batons, expandable and side-handle (aka PR-24) batons. Your baton card must be stamped with the appropriate one. Also I remember that your guard card must be permanent before you can carry the baton. You can get the training and the baton card while on the temporary card, but you technically won't be legal.

Since you are the only one at night... do you have access to firearms to deal with animals? That would be my primary concern.

[uoplax13]

It's been a while since this topic had any action.....but, I'm still alive, with my lame job, and counting the days until I (hopefully) make it to the academy (august or sept. maybe?). One of the many things I learned how to do in college was talk to drunks, and it sure has come in handy. There have been a few situations where I've had to talk myself into safety and then call out CHP or the local SO. Like everyone has pretty much eluded to, my job isn't to kick ass- just gotta sit here and observe and report....and help out when I can. I had to get EMT to an old guy that collapsed during a a bad storm a while back, and even though he was okay, and turned out not to be in that bad of shape anyway.....and even though it's nothing on the scale of the stuff officers see, that felt real good helping out.
Back to this topic....after seeing how things are run around here (goes for most ski resorts in CA), I sure as hell don't want the liabilty of carrying anything at all- if something did happen and I received any backing from the company during a lawsuit or something, I doubt it would be competent or whole-hearted. As far as the animals go (which were my primary concern, really.), I wish I carried something for that, but most coyotes take off once you start yelling, and if that doesn't work a good smack from a maglite takes care of them. I did see some big (bear?) tracks on my way in through the parking lot tonight........will try and get pictures!

[madmike]

Hello,
My two cents. I would carry a legal length single edge knife and a small can of pepper. Thats of course if your boss and policy lets you. You do want to go home at night and you need to up your chances of doing so as much as legally possible. A good squirt in someone or somethings face with pepper will give you a good running start. A knife will give you a fighting chance if your pinned to the ground. Stay safe!!!

[Mac]

Hello,
My two cents. I would carry a legal length single edge knife and a small can of pepper. Thats of course if your boss and policy lets you. You do want to go home at night and you need to up your chances of doing so as much as legally possible. A good squirt in someone or somethings face with pepper will give you a good running start. A knife will give you a fighting chance if your pinned to the ground. Stay safe!!!
FWIW, this thread is nearly three years old - uoplax13 has long since left that job, successfully completed the Academy and is now a CHP Officer.

[madmike]

Outstanding!!! Thanks for the update. New to this forum as all can see.