Religion and department standards

[CHPUSMC]

little warm-up
Cadet = Volunteer, similar to CHP Explorers. Age range from 16-21.


My thoughts. I have lived in Yuba City for 22 years now. I have grown up and gone to school with countless Sikh's and have a great respect for their religious faith. Without diving too far into this, telling man that his beard would "have to be shaved off" is an insult to his faith.

"When a Sikh man or woman dons a turban, the turban ceases to be just a piece of cloth and becomes one and the same with the Sikh's head. The turban as well as the other articles of faith worn by Sikhs have an immense spiritual as well as temporal significance. Devout male Sikhs also do not cut, trim or shave their beards."

Other countries such as Canada and Britain allow Sikh's to wear both their Turban and beards.

It seems to be a "open mouth, insert foot" comment made by the officer. Most departments only allow a mustache for facial hair and I want to assume that the YCPD is no different. I can see in a sideways way how the comment could have been made. Things happen but I do applaud the Police Chief for the speed and the way he handled the situiation. It seems that the City of Yuba City experienced a learning experience.

So I guess the root of this post is that...
Does the CHP employ any Sikh's that wear turbans and beards. Outta, curiosity mainly. I have talked to some Sikh's about careers in LE. Of the ones that express interest but they have a hard time with the policy's of various departments pertaining to facial hair and have decided to not go forth with the application process.



Yuba City Police Chief Apologizes to Sikh American Denied Employment

SALDEF works with city officials to defend the rights of the Sikh American student



WashingtonD.C. – March 7, 2007: The Sikh American Legal Defense and Education Fund (SALDEF), the nation's oldest Sikh American civil rights and advocacy organization, received a formal letter of apology from Yuba City Police Chief Robert Doscher for denying employment to Mr. Harvir Singh Uppal as he sought to become a police cadet.



Mr. Uppal, a 19 year old student and adherent of the Sikh faith, was interviewed by OfficerKim Slade, Director of the Yuba City Police Department Cadet Program, for a position as a cadet. A week later, Mr. Uppal contacted Officer Slade to check the status of his application at which time he was informed upon conferring with the Chief of Police and the City Attorney that, "though the turban was 'acceptable, the beard does not conform to the uniform standards of the police department and it would have to be shaved off".


SALDEF contacted Yuba City Police Chief Doscher and Mayor John Miller informing them of the discriminatory nature of this policy and recommended the necessary steps to remedy the situation quickly and to the satisfaction of Mr. Uppal.


In a letter of apology to SALDEF, Chief Doscher noted, “We [Yuba City Police Department] have no policy which precludes an employee of the Sikh faith from wearing a turban or beard (or possession of a kirpan) during their employment with us.” He added, “Please accept this as an unintentional oversight by one of my staff officers, which I take responsibility for. I can assure you that as of this writing, there is no misunderstanding any longer.”

SALDEF thanks Yuba City Police Chief Robert Doscher for his immediate attention to this matter and reaffirming his department's policy of encouraging religious diversity. SALDEF urges police departments across the nation to follow Chief Doscher's example of welcoming individuals of faith to serve their communities without having to compromise their religious practices. Additionally, SALDEF commends the courage of Mr. Harvir Singh Uppal for asserting his rights as an American citizen. .

If you, or anyone you know, believe they have been the victim of workplace or employment discrimination, please report it at http://www.saldef.org/reportform.aspx (http://www.saldef.org/reportform.aspx) or contact SALDEF immediately at 202-393-2700 or info@saldef.org (info@saldef.org).

[ResQ]

Rastafarians everywhere are going to want LE jobs where they can smoke out on their lunch break...for prayer time of course...?!:noidea:

WILLIAM TOM FRANK!!!!

would you want a doctor opposed to washing their hands operating on you...?! There are certain things that are "standard" IMHO...

so to this Maroon...I say...you don't have to shave at In-n-Out...get lost.

What if he has to don a gas mask to rescue your sig other from a riotous mob...do YOU want his facial hair interfering with his ability to SAFELY conduct his duty to John Q?

WEAK...CHEAP...JOKE!


NEXT!!!!

[PapaBear]

Before I retired, the Department had fairly rigid grooming standards which precluded one wearing a beard. Religion did not enter into the equation. Mustaches were fine as long as they were trimmed within Departmental guidelines. Sideburns to the bottom of the ear - and not combed back over the ear. I am certain that those standards remain unchanged.

There may be a civilian employee for the agency somewhere in the state that has a beard and wears a turbin; but, I seriously doubt you will see an officer doing so for some time.

BTW, beards and longer hair were quite the norm in Law Enforcement and Fire Services in the 19th century and early 20th century.

[HWY Ranger2B]

so to this Maroon...I say...you don't have to shave at In-n-Out...get lost.

What if he has to don a gas mask to rescue your sig other from a riotous mob...do YOU want his facial hair interfering with his ability to SAFELY conduct his duty to John Q?

WEAK...CHEAP...JOKE!


NEXT!!!!

I have to agree. I respect others faith, but don't change a standard that has been established based upon safety, etc. just because you want to get a job. You should look elsewhere for a job.

If we changed a safety standard because of someone's faith, then we are in trouble. Faith is a touchy issue, but there are lines that still must be drawn.

Think about this, what if this Sikh got in a scuffle with a criminal and this criminal grabbed the Sikh by his beard and was able to beat him up, break his neck, then get away. The criminal now goes on to kill/rob someone. Do you think the next victim's family now has a good case for a great lawsuit against the LE agency who changed a safety regulation?:think:

:hitwall: :hitwall: :hitwall: :hitwall:

[SemiMBA]

There is an active Sihk who is a sworn Deputy with the LA County SD. I don't think he has any problems.

[Chippysgt]

It has been over 40 years since I went on the CHP and the grooming standards have not varied too much over that time. When I came on all officers were male, most were caucasian, all were at least 5-9, most were taller. In the 70s the sex barrier went down and about the same time the height/weight thing changed. During the 70s men wore longer hair and CHP officers were no exception. Take a look at Ponch and John for examples, even their Sgt. was a little scruffy around the ears. The CHP regulations did not change, the officers simply pushed the limits of acceptability and social mores were strong enough so even the brass joined the ranks of marginal hair standards.
All that being said, I have also worked with a few officers of Indian descent and at least one of them was a Sikh. I lived and worked in Woodland for many years so I am familiar with the people of Yuba City also and Livingston in Merced County has a significant Sikh population. I don't think these officers denounced their religion to go on the job. What they did was meet the standards for employment in a country where we have religious tolerance but we are a nation of secular law. Just for clarity, I believe our secular law in the constitution was written by God fearing Christian men who believed "In God We Trust" but did not want churches running the country.
The CHP does not allow turbans, beards or Kirpans. They also do not allow the hair style used by Hassadic Jews. They do not allow all sorts of hair styles, facial hair or jewelry styles of many different groups or religious orders. It is for appearance, discipline and uniformity. Being a quasi-military organization in America, I do not forsee the standards changing significantly in the foreseeable future.
As far as the turbans or beards being an occupational hazard, I think that is a stretch. Sikh warriors have never considered them an impediment and I suspect, in India, there are Sikh policemen that wear the turban and beard.
By the way, we also required CHP officers to work on the sabbath, Christmas, Easter, Good Friday, Passover, Yum Kipper, EID and any of the other religious holidays in America. It is the nature of beast. Someone has to be out there in the ditches.
As George Orwell said ""Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. "

[bcjack]

Times have changed. There recently was a successful lawsuit against the New York Fire Department involving a Black Firefighter who was a Muslim and wore a beard (For Religious purposes) and was ordered to shave it due to the "Safety issues" (OSHA and a breathing mask seal). The court ruled that the religion was more important than the "Chance" that maybe, possibly, the beard would interfere with the breathing mask seal. The case is in appeal and I do not know where it is at today.:confused:

[chico.medic]

There is a K-9 officer (Paradise PD) that I have seen on a few calls while working in Paradise. I doubt it is a matter of religion, but he normally wears a full beard during the fall/winter months.

[bcjack]

There is a K-9 officer (Paradise PD) that I have seen on a few calls while working in Paradise. I doubt it is a matter of religion, but he normally wears a full beard during the fall/winter months.

While I was a Reserve Officer, I attended a training class with a Deputy from Tahoe County that had a beard that would rival any Sikh or Muslim.

[Onthejob]

As far as the turbans or beards being an occupational hazard, I think that is a stretch. Sikh warriors have never considered them an impediment and I suspect, in India, there are Sikh policemen that wear the turban and beard.


Even in our military (or the world in general, for that matter), prior to the "Great War", long hair and beards were common and accepted. Hand-to-hand combat was a normal part of warfare, even in the late 19th century! The military did just fine. It was the advent of the use of gas and the gas mask that necessitated the need for a clean face. A protective seal was the determining factor.

[dw]

Full beards are required of Berkeley PD. (Yes, I'm kidding, but they are the norm.)