Feigning not knowing English

[SemiMBA]

What do you do when you pull over a driver who does not speak English? (Or feigns not knowing English?). Is there a requirement to speak English to obtain a drivers license in CA? If you cannot find a translator (or the language is one that is uncommon) – do you give them a ticket anyway or do you let them off?

I am asking because a co-worker claimed that he has gotten out of several tickets by feigning that he didn’t know how to speak English (one of the languages he does speak is a dialect spoken in China that is not commonly known to even most Chinese). I didn’t buy it – but I thought I would ask anyway.

[14596]

speeding is speeding; a ticket is a ticket

[Chippysgt]

When you start talking about jail, it is amazing how many people suddenly learn English....................:cool:

[BoySergeant]

I've only had to do this twice, but there is a 24 hour translation line we can call to aid in translation of nearly every language (I think it is through AT&T, but I could be wrong). They'll find one of their translators and they will call you back. You tell the translator what is going on and what you need to say and hand the person the telephone.

There is no requirement to speak English in order to obtain a driver license. The DMV exam is available in numerous languages.

This is difficult in the field, but can work as a last resort. But, I agree with ChippySgt, if you start talking about jail it is amazing how many people learn English.

[Mac]

Drawing a little picture of a face behind bars or pulling out a pair of handcuffs is amazingly effective non-verbal communication in such circumstances. :badgrin:

[WantToBeCHP]

When you start talking about jail, it is amazing how many people suddenly learn English....................:cool:

That was the best... :lol:

[AyatollahGondola]

Just a word of caution boys and girls,

Having swam in the sea of political correctness on a weekly or daily basis, the trend seems to be towards protecting immigrants to a very high degree. My guess is that in the not so distant future some poor LEO is going to be made an example of in the regard that you mentioned about making handcuffs or jail an option like that. The immigrants rights group or ACLU will likely champion the cause with some sort of intimidation or discrimination related suit. After all, not speaking english is not a crime, and threatening immigrants is akin to spanking your kids in public.

[(Deleted)]

Perhaps the ACLU has reviewed section 40302 of the Vehicle Code? No sign ticket, you go judge. Being stopped for an infraction is an arrest. Whether a judge is available or not, if you're arrested and won't sign the promise to appear, you get a pair of handcuffs until you're released from custody, the judge gives you your speedy trial or your custody is remanded to the sheriff. Period.

So, showing a pair of cuffs to someone who speaks perfect english is probably not a good idea as you could have explained the consequences to them. I could see arguing intimidation there. If they don't speak english, or choose to not speak english, then showing them the cuffs to explain the consequences seems fair to me.

It's about what is fair and reasonable. That ticket needs to be signed so you can go on your way. It's your bail. Do you want it or not? Nobody wants to take someone to the jail or courthouse in cuffs because they wouldn't sign for 80 in a 65. Or even 90 in 65. Believe me.

[AyatollahGondola]

That wasn't what was in the original post though. It was just feigning or not speaking english.

[BoySergeant]

That wasn't what was in the original post though. It was just feigning or not speaking english.

Let's look at this another way... if you can prove someone was feigning or not speaking English because they didn't want to get a ticket or answer your questions, they are in violation of California Penal Code section 148(a). You may be able to charge them for 31 VC as well. This is a serious offense. I cannot begin to put a number on the amount of people who have tried this as a means to hinder writing them a citation or in the course of an investigation. I take this a par-for-the-course and try to get the job done without taking anyone to jail, if possible. Everyone lies to the cops. Everyone lies to the cops. Of course, there are those that legitimately don't know the English Language. I then speak Spanish (if appropriate) and carry on with business. Sometimes my Spanish is sooooo bad, they try to speak English because they see I'm trying and we meet half way. I appreciate this gesture. Those that I can't communicate with, I'll call the 800 number for translation or hopefully use a passenger in the vehicle for translation. I explain to those I believe are lying to me the consequences of their actions or omissions and what I believe is going on... and sometimes, sometimes they miraculously begin speaking English... Wallah!

[PapaBear]

?Su no hablar englis? :rolleyes: Yo no hablar Espanol! :noidea: Enscribe su nombre aquis, es un ticketo por su infracion! :doh: La corte informacion es aqui!!! :badgrin: Vaya Con Dios! :hitwall:

[Chippysgt]

Gracias, Gracias oficial cabron, su español chupa, pero usted tiene un culo agradable. ..................

That is what the last Latina said to me when I wrote her a ticket??????

[SemiMBA]

Gracias, Gracias oficial cabron, su español chupa, pero usted tiene un culo agradable. ..................



I just had a colleague translate this for me - we are both rolling on the floor. Did you know what she meant when she said it? :lol:

[SemiMBA]

?Su no hablar englis? :rolleyes: Yo no hablar Espanol! :noidea: Enscribe su nombre aquis, es un ticketo por su infracion! :doh: La corte informacion es aqui!!! :badgrin: Vaya Con Dios! :hitwall:

I bet the "go with god" part was received well. :lol:

[chico.medic]

Gracias, Gracias oficial cabron, su español chupa, pero usted tiene un culo agradable. ..................

That is what the last Latina said to me when I wrote her a ticket??????

Translation?

[SemiMBA]

I will send you a PM

[600RR_Brad]

Some of the translations are rough but it gets you in the ball park. http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

[PapaBear]

Gracias, Gracias oficial cabron, su español chupa, pero usted tiene un culo agradable. ..................

That is what the last Latina said to me when I wrote her a ticket??????


Must comment that she knew you well!!!!:lol:

[Chippysgt]

For the record, this was a joke from my Walter Middy imagination however the rough translation is:

Thank you officer (expletive), your Spanish sucks, but you have a nice behind..............................:cool:

[BoySergeant]

For the record, this was a joke from my Walter Middy imagination however the rough translation is:

Thank you officer (expletive), your Spanish sucks, but you have a nice behind..............................:cool:

Behind? Behind my ass! :shock: Oh... exactly! :lol: Reminds me of a story... :tape:

[Ninefootsix]

The two best classes I took back in school that prepared me for this job were typing and Spanish. I'm not fluent by any stretch but I can stumble my way through a conversation ok. I've stopped many a Spanish-speaker who didn't speak a word of English until I replied to them and explained the ticket in Spanish and asked them to sign it. One lady just gave me a sullen look and asked, "how much is the ticket..."

It also comes in handy when Spanish speakers are right in front of you (say at a crash scene) trying to get their story straight, because I'm just some big dumb white guy who doesn't understand what they're saying, right? WRONG!!! :biggrin: Just because I'm waiting and choosing my words carefully doesn't mean I dont' know what's up!

[AspiringToBeChp]

I was on a ride along a while back and we pulled over a hispanic male for doing somethin like 103 in a 65. Come to find out he was drunk and "did not know english". After a searh of the vehicle the officer found his I.D. and found he gave a false name. When questioned the guy simply replied "Alright dude thats not my real name, and your spanish blows":doh: i found it to be kinda comical due to the fact that the guy racked up another charge for nothing, seeing as he was going to jail anyways.

[Ratty]

On a similar vein, I was talking to a guy from the British Transport Police the other day (they Police the London Underground and the Railways). He said they had a Community Support Officer called in by despatch the other day to come in for his English lesson!!!

[frwycop]

No Ingles, no problema, I just call for FSP. :badgrin:
(Freeway Service Patrol, free tow/assistance services)

[AyatollahGondola]

Here is along the lines of what I was writing about earlier in the thread. I doubt that this officer spoke exactly like that, but there are many groups, bureaucrats and politicians salivating over opportunities to sensationalize intolerance. Failing to exhibit love of diversity is working it's way toward hate crime status



Woman sues state over CHP officer's alleged Sept. 11 tirade
Henry K. Lee, Chronicle Staff Writer (hlee@sfchronicle.com)
Thursday, April 5, 2007

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A woman of Iranian descent has filed a federal civil-rights lawsuit against the state of California, accusing a Highway Patrol officer of spewing anti-foreigner invective against her after he stopped her for speeding in Pleasanton a day after the five-year anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
Zahra Sedaghatpour, 38, of Fremont said Officer Jon Schatmeier, 32, berated her after she asked not to be cited for allegedly traveling 79 mph in her Mercedes on Interstate 680 on Sept. 12.
Schatmeier told the woman to "shut up" and refused to provide a business card when she asked for one, according to the lawsuit filed last week in U.S. District Court in San Francisco. Sedaghatpour is an environmental engineer for the Contra Costa Central Sanitary District in Martinez.
When the officer asked her to sign the citation, Sedaghatpour asked whether she could read it before she signed it. The officer then yelled, "I don't have time for you foreigners to sit in your Mercedes. You think you own the road! You think you own the country," according to the suit.
Schatmeier, who works out of the CHP's Dublin office, and Officer Steve Creel, spokesman for the CHP in Dublin, both declined comment Tuesday.
The state rejected a claim filed by Sedaghatpour last month but has not yet responded to the suit in court. A spokesman for Attorney General Jerry Brown had no immediate comment.
According to the suit, Sedaghatpour asked a second time to review the citation before signing it, but the officer "dragged her out of her car" and radioed for backup, the suit says. When she began crying and said she would sign the citation, Schatmeier and a motorcycle officer told her it was too late and placed her in handcuffs, according to the suit.
Schatmeier told her, "Today is Sept. 12. Do you remember Sept. 11? Do you know what happened on Sept. 11? It's people like you who killed all of our people. This is our country! Why don't you go back to your country?" according to the suit.
A CHP supervisor arrived at the scene and told the officers to release her, the suit says. Sedaghatpour said she went to Washington Hospital in Fremont to be treated for contusions to her arm and leg and elbow pain.
"It's so appalling to me," said Sedaghatpour's attorney, Hunter Pyle of Oakland. "It's so upsetting that police officers would do something like this. America is not about judging people based on their skin color or their ethnicity, and yet they felt they could just take out on this woman whatever feelings they had about Sept. 11 and foreigners. They just terrorized her." E-mail Henry K. Lee at hlee@sfchronicle.com (hlee@sfchronicle.com).

This article appeared on page B - 3 of the San Francisco Chronicle

[retchp]

I found that the best way to deal with situations like this (wanting to read the citation before signing) is to VERY SLOWLY and VERY PATIENTLY explain each item on the citation to the person without ever handing them the document. Just hold it so they can see it, start at the top and VERY SLOWLY tell them that the first block is TODAY'S DATE which is WHATEVER IT IS. This should take you about fifteen or twenty seconds. Be sure to ask if they UNDERSTAND THAT PART. Then move to the next block which is the time, VERY SLOWLY and PATIENTLY tell them that the information in that block represents the approximate time of the stop. This should take fifteen or twenty seconds. Next move on to the day of the week and their name and so on. After you get somewhere around their address, which you should CONFIRM by asking them if that information is correct so far, AND IF THEY UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING you have helped them read SO FAR, they are usually trying to jerk the citation book from your hand and sign it since you have now been explaining/reading it with them for about three or four minutes and you are only about a fifth of the way through the document. With a little practice you can take ten or fifteen minutes to go through every line and box on the document and VERY SLOWLY EXPLAIN/READ and get CONFIRMATION that THEY UNDERSTAND.
Suddenly they are no longer so eager to sit there and read the document now that they are unable to frustrate, delay and obstruct the officer by doing so.
Just be careful to not be sarcastic and to just be amiable and patient as you slowly and painfully walk them line by line through the simple document.
Trust me it works every time. Let them complain that the officer was taking too long to help them understand what they were signing.

[AyatollahGondola]

I remember in Oregon a few years back the officers didn't need to get signatures. They just "served" the citation on the driver

[23109]

Some states still do not require signatures for citations.

[VFR Chippie]

Huh. I've found that "Sign in the red box. Press hard." has been pretty universal. No real questions about that. :rolleyes:

Oh, and I have to agree that, once the violator hears that, by not signing the citation, s/he wins a free, all-expense-paid trip to see the judge, there's a sudden moment of clarity. It's pretty easy to say, "Oops. I'm sorry. Where do I sign?" Sergeants are pretty good as translators then. "Gracias, danke, arigato, Sarge!" :lol:

[ChippieWife]

My bilingual husband gets that crap alot..He'll pull someone over and they'll do the "No speak-uh ingliss" and he'll look at them for a moment...And start over in Spanish...And all of a sudden, their English is as good as a Harvard graduate's...The crap you guys put up with blows my mind...