"Entrapment"

[WantToBeCHP]

I was listening to a local talk radio show, and they were talking about the CHP and they "Entrap" people of the freeway. He siad that they sit on freeway on-ramps and you cannot see them at all. He went on to mention that you are supposed to be able to see the CHP car 100 feet before.

I have seen the CHP do this, and the only way I can see them is when Im coming the opposite way on the freeway and I see them on the on-ramp on the other side of the freeway (if that makes sense).

My question is, is there such thing as a "entrapment" law?

[VQ209]

I am not an officer but, I don't believe that is considered entrapment. Entrapment is usually when someone is unwillingly induced to commit an illegal act by the police. When people speed or commit any other similar violation,they usually are not being forced to do so by the police.

[SB 405]

I've never seen this before (and trust me when you drive a sports car I'm always on the look out) I have seen patrol units parked on the shoulder of on ramps watching the on ramp traffic signal. I've got a feeling the CHP has no problem locating people violating traffic laws while on patrol without hiding.

[IrishJoe]

I've never seen this before (and trust me when you drive a sports car I'm always on the look out) I have seen patrol units parked on the shoulder of on ramps watching the on ramp traffic signal. I've got a feeling the CHP has no problem locating people violating traffic laws while on patrol without hiding.

I have seen it done, though its rare (that I've seen it).

[23112]

I was listening to a local talk radio show, and they were talking about the CHP and they "Entrap" people of the freeway. He siad that they sit on freeway on-ramps and you cannot see them at all. He went on to mention that you are supposed to be able to see the CHP car 100 feet before.

I have seen the CHP do this, and the only way I can see them is when Im coming the opposite way on the freeway and I see them on the on-ramp on the other side of the freeway (if that makes sense).

My question is, is there such thing as a "entrapment" law?


1) There is such a thing as entrapment, but sitting on an on-ramp definitely doesn't constitute it. They were just being loose with their terminology.
2) The DJ was pulling the "supposed to be able to see the CHP car at 100 ft." out of his armpit. People don't see me as they pass me when I'm going 65 in the slow lane, and they don't see me when I'm 20 feet behind them with my lights on, half the time. This job is easy--people bring their violations to your doorstep--there's no need to hide.
3) It's against policy to hide.
4) The radio station has no idea why the Chippies they've seen are sitting on an on-ramp. They could be doing paperwork, writing a report, eating lunch, or any number of other things.
5) Radio personnel ought to police their own speed, first, then they won't have to worry about a CHP officer "entrapping" them or any other such nonsense. Alas, the wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are as bold as a lion. :-)

[Fire1]

As usual this falls under the area of policies we generaly don't discuss with the public. We don't "bait" people into commiting violations, but we also don't make it obvious to the volation-commiting-public that we are there. That is why if you have ever been stopped for speeding, you probably got caught before you realized they were there. We don't go out of our way to "hide", but we do try to remain rather "unnoticed." As for the talk shows, they have no idea what they are talking about.

[SB 405]

I'm wondering how the entrapment topic came up on the radio show in the first place. Maybe the host of the show was cited on the 15 while doing 90mph on his way to Vegas and his tunnel vision got the best of him?:doh:

[WantToBeCHP]

Me personally, I dont think there should be a law against entrapment. If you are going to break the law, expect to get caught. If you dont break the law, you dont have to worry about it.

[WantToBeCHP]

. We don't "bait" people into commiting violations, but we also don't make it obvious to the volation-commiting-public that we are there. That is why if you have ever been stopped for speeding, you probably got caught before you realized they were there. We don't go out of our way to "hide", but we do try to remain rather "unnoticed." As for the talk shows, they have no idea what they are talking about.

I just dont understand how you can go to court and tell the judge that " I was illegally caught speeding". :hitwall:

[dw]

and trust me when you drive a sports car I'm always on the look outThe truth comes out! :lol:

[VLDDZ]

first of all, is it really illegal for CHP to hide or a better way to put it "stay of of sight" for violators? If it is illegal.....why? If an officer is hiding in a way and catches a violator, aren't the violators still that a "violator"? This is just my 2 cents on the whole issue.

[dw]

first of all, is it really illegal for CHP to hide or a better way to put it "stay of of sight" for violators?No. As already stated, it is not an illegal practice.

[SB 405]

The truth comes out! :lol:

Let's just say you guys ain't caught me yet. Now watch tonight on my way home....."press hard sir".:badgrin:

[Afrmthabay]

I was listening to a local talk radio show, and they were talking about the CHP and they "Entrap" people of the freeway. He siad that they sit on freeway on-ramps and you cannot see them at all. He went on to mention that you are supposed to be able to see the CHP car 100 feet before.

I have seen the CHP do this, and the only way I can see them is when Im coming the opposite way on the freeway and I see them on the on-ramp on the other side of the freeway (if that makes sense).

My question is, is there such thing as a "entrapment" law?

There is a such thing as an entrapment law but what you are referring to on your post does not constitute entrapment. Entrapment is the act of a law enforcement officer agent inducing a person to commit a crime that the person was not otherwise disposed to commit.

[WantToBeCHP]

There is a such thing as an entrapment law but what you are referring to on your post does not constitute entrapment. Entrapment is the act of a law enforcement officer agent inducing a person to commit a crime that the person was not otherwise disposed to commit.

So in other words, a CHP officer can stay "out of site" anywhere becuase speeding is speeding regardless. Right?

[snowdog]

As usual this falls under the area of policies we generaly don't discuss with the public.
Thats the smartest line of this whole thread Fire1. No matter what anyone says, someone is going to misinterpret, disagree or want to debate the issue. As usual, the first responses come from those who have no knowledge of policy.

[Mac]

The DJ has no idea what he's talking about - neither do the thousands of other people I've heard blather on about "entrapment" because they've seen a police car sitting on a ramp, working radar from a driveway where they're not clearly visible, cruising past bars at closing time, etc. It's another example of "sidewalk lawyers" who've learned everything they know about the law from watching television.....similar to the people who say "You'll never make this case stick - you didn't read me my rights when you handcuffed me!". Just like on tv, right? :rolleyes:

Better examples of "entrapment" would be along the lines of:

a) Waving somebody through a red light, then citing them for failing to stop at a red traffic signal.

b) Having an undercover officer go into a bar and buy somebody drinks until they're blind drunk, then calling ahead to a pre-positioned uniform officer outside to arrest him for DUI when he tries to leave.

c) Putting a plainclothes officer in a modified "ricer" car and having him pull up next to other "ricers" and rev his engine, etc. in an effort to get them to race.

In these examples, you're inducing somebody to do something where they (arguably) wouldn't have otherwise done it. There's no law against strategically positioning yourself to catch law-breakers who are breaking the law of their own free will with no inducement.

So in other words, a CHP officer can stay "out of site" anywhere becuase speeding is speeding regardless. Right?
Legally, yes.

[Chipper]

The DJ has no idea what he's talking about - neither do the thousands of other people I've heard blather on about "entrapment" because they've seen a police car sitting on a ramp, working radar from a driveway where they're not clearly visible, cruising past bars at closing time, etc. It's another example of "sidewalk lawyers" who've learned everything they know about the law from watching television.....similar to the people who say "You'll never make this case stick - you didn't read me my rights when you handcuffed me!". Just like on tv, right? :rolleyes:

Better examples of "entrapment" would be along the lines of:

a) Waving somebody through a red light, then citing them for failing to stop at a red traffic signal.

b) Having an undercover officer go into a bar and buy somebody drinks until they're blind drunk, then calling ahead to a pre-positioned uniform officer outside to arrest him for DUI when he tries to leave.

c) Putting a plainclothes officer in a modified "ricer" car and having him pull up next to other "ricers" and rev his engine, etc. in an effort to get them to race.

In these examples, you're inducing somebody to do something where they (arguably) wouldn't have otherwise done it. There's no law against strategically positioning yourself to catch law-breakers who are breaking the law of their own free will with no inducement.


Legally, yes.

Mac- Not arguing your post, but just as a matter of discussion, if your example 'b' above is entrapment, wouldn't an undercover officer soliciting a prositute also be entrapment?

Again, please don't think I'm arguing, just curious :)

[WantToBeCHP]

The DJ has no idea what he's talking about - neither do the thousands of other people I've heard blather on about "entrapment" because they've seen a police car sitting on a ramp, working radar from a driveway where they're not clearly visible, cruising past bars at closing time, etc. It's another example of "sidewalk lawyers" who've learned everything they know about the law from watching television.....similar to the people who say "You'll never make this case stick - you didn't read me my rights when you handcuffed me!". Just like on tv, right? :rolleyes:

Better examples of "entrapment" would be along the lines of:

a) Waving somebody through a red light, then citing them for failing to stop at a red traffic signal.

b) Having an undercover officer go into a bar and buy somebody drinks until they're blind drunk, then calling ahead to a pre-positioned uniform officer outside to arrest him for DUI when he tries to leave.

c) Putting a plainclothes officer in a modified "ricer" car and having him pull up next to other "ricers" and rev his engine, etc. in an effort to get them to race.

In these examples, you're inducing somebody to do something where they (arguably) wouldn't have otherwise done it. There's no law against strategically positioning yourself to catch law-breakers who are breaking the law of their own free will with no inducement.


Legally, yes.

Thank you Mac.. Very Well Put.

[bcjack]

The prostitute "sting" is not entrapment unless the officer offers the money or offers a price first.
The prostitute (Alleged prostitute...sorry :doh: ) must state the price and state what you get for the price.

[2100VC]

It is common for the media to misuse terms such as "entrapment" and my personal favorite, "speedtrap". They use those terms because they evoke public emotion and make it seem that we are simply out to "get" everyone.

For example, check out speedtrap.org (http://www.speedtrap.org/index.html). If you read the posts, they basically say if it's a place officers pull over a lot of cars...it's a speedtrap. The general consensus seems that as long as I am driving "safely" then I should be able to speed.

As we all know here in California a speedtrap is one of two things:
A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and
with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order
that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it
takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.
Simply, using radar on to enforce a speed limit which is artificially low. (w/o a traffic survey)The first is actually a very accurate way to obtain speed however, when the legislature created this law, they wanted to eliminate the appearance that officers were hiding off the road somewhere and timing cars between some poles or trees way off in the distance.

As far as the second one goes, it seems that a speed limit be reasonably set. Although, why it would be okay if you pace the vehicle through an unreasonable speed zone instead of using radar is beyond me.

Everyday I go 10-8, I am still amazed that motorists don't understand that 65 MPH is a MAXIMUM speed limit. It is NOT a recommended speed.

Many people think the speed limits should be raised. To some extent I can understand why. Roads are better. Cars are safer (and ride smoother) but there is one thing that has not improved, the DRIVER. Today's drivers are more distracted and treat driving as a game rather than a responsibility. Their lack of maturity makes me think we should lower the speed limit.

Sorry for the dissertation.

[stickbug14]

I was listening to a local talk radio show, and they were talking about the CHP and they "Entrap" people of the freeway. He siad that they sit on freeway on-ramps and you cannot see them at all. He went on to mention that you are supposed to be able to see the CHP car 100 feet before.

I have seen the CHP do this, and the only way I can see them is when Im coming the opposite way on the freeway and I see them on the on-ramp on the other side of the freeway (if that makes sense).

My question is, is there such thing as a "entrapment" law?


Here is what "entrapment" is.

Lets say I as the police (in uniform or verbally) tell suspect to steal something and I won't arrest him. The suspect steals the item and I arrest him for 487 PC. That is entrapment.

[pupdog]

Gawd forbid cops actually do their job & save a few lives. Oh that's right, I forgot...'it will never happen to me' applies to everyone and nobody will ever get in a wreck or have a loved one killed.

I support you all...paper the place with tickets! Hit 'em in the pocket where it hurts!

[MW]

True

But say your acting an undercover capacity and simply provide the opportunity to steal something.. even something that you provided and told where it might be located...... That is not entrapment...

A normal, prudent, law abiding citizen would have enough reasonable belief to know it's wrong and against the law...

Some may not like this approach, but it puts crooks in jail and keeps them from stealing from normal, prudent, law abiding citizens.

[Your Mentor]

Don't you just love the 'rules' of engagement. People speed all the time. Everyone does. They look for us like it's a game. It's not a game to us at all. They decide to speed or not. We're just there; hidden or otherwise. The only way a cop could entrap a speeder would be to put phony 70 mph signs over the 55 mph signs and then stop everyone for 70. As to the hiding question; I worked in the desert at a time before we had radar. You had to odometer pace cars from half a mile back for five miles or more. It took a while but it was an art form moving over the desert terrain undetected. Most people's driving behavior and limited skill is easily turned against them in this regard. Seating position, mirror locations, curve directions, blind areas, etc, are all used to OUR advantage. My goal back then was to get three or more odometer clicks and then sneak in for the stop. I can't tell you how fun that is and infinitely rewarding to hear, "Where the hell did you come from!"

Today, there's just no need to 'hide.' Especially in two lanes with radar.

[x MAIT]

Hey guys, have you found that with the new cloaking devices that catching speeders has become so easy it almost isn't worth the time? I'm sorry that I retired before they were put into regular use, although I was able to participate in one of the studys before leaving ELA. Back then the device was so large it took up the passenger seat, but the ones I've seen lately fit nicely onto the dash. Times are really changing.:cool:

[dw]

You had to odometer pace cars from half a mile back for five miles or more.I want to thank you again for teaching teaching us how to odometer pace, YM. No one else ever mentioned that to me when new and although I've always worked metro areas, I love to odometer on Sunday mornings or other light traffic. :biggrin:

[WantToBeCHP]

Hey guys, have you found that with the new cloaking devices that catching speeders has become so easy it almost isn't worth the time? I'm sorry that I retired before they were put into regular use, although I was able to participate in one of the studys before leaving ELA. Back then the device was so large it took up the passenger seat, but the ones I've seen lately fit nicely onto the dash. Times are really changing.:cool:

What is a cloaking device?

[CHPUSMC]

What is a cloaking device?

You must know the answer to this. "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a WantToBeCHP pop?"

I only say this because you are the first sucker that I saw get drawn in by that. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[dw]

You must know the answer to this. "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a WantToBeCHP pop?"

I only say this because you are the first sucker that I saw get drawn in by that. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:What were those two things...??? Oh yeah, maturity and professionalism.

[x MAIT]

What is a cloaking device?

Sorry. I guess you haven't seen many Star Trek episodes or movies. Anyway, good luck in the testing process.:cool:

[WantToBeCHP]

Sorry. I guess you haven't seen many Star Trek episodes or movies. Anyway, good luck in the testing process.:cool:

Sorry. Never even watched an episode, much less wanted to see the movie.

[CHPUSMC]

Sorry. Never even watched an episode, much less wanted to see the movie.

It's not a bad show. Sometimes corny but that's how older shows are with tight budgets. Apparently they say there was a lot of technology that the show inspired such as automatic doors and such.

[x MAIT]

Sorry. Never even watched an episode, much less wanted to see the movie.

Careful. Your first FTO might be a Trekkie.:cool:

[Yzeman]

What were those two things...??? Oh yeah, maturity and professionalism.

Thank You!

[BoySergeant]

I want to thank you again for teaching teaching us how to odometer pace, YM. No one else ever mentioned that to me when new and although I've always worked metro areas, I love to odometer on Sunday mornings or other light traffic. :biggrin:

Wow... that gave me flashbacks... YM drawing a line on the board talking about using trees, landmarks, large rocks, bends in the roadway, etc... to pace vehicles. I've had to explain odometer pacing to every trainee I've had. Either they aren't being taught the technique in the Academy or they have forgotten it... After all, there is a box on the trial by declaration form for odometer pacing...

dw, I think we need a new category on the site. YM's story time... :biggrin: Maybe he'll poke someone in the eyes...