Stop Sign Violaton?

[JoeyMac323]

Hey experts,
Any provision in the CVC which states the operator of a motorcycle must put down a foot (or both) in order for the stop to be considered a “complete stop?” I’ve looked pretty thoroughly at the VC, and only came up with 587 VC which defines “stop or stopping.”
I heard at the DMV they make the operator of a motorcycle put both feet down when stopping.
Maybe there is case law, but I doubt it (I haven’t found anything yet).
Thanks,
JoeyMac

[PapaBear]

CVC Section 22450:

Stop Requirements

22450. (a) The driver of any vehicle approaching a stop sign at the entrance to, or within, an intersection, or railroad grade crossing shall stop at a limit line, if marked, otherwise before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection.
If there is no limit line or crosswalk, the driver shall stop at the entrance to the intersecting roadway or railroad grade crossing.
(b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a local authority may adopt rules and regulations by ordinance or resolution providing for the placement of a stop sign at any location on a highway under its jurisdiction where the stop sign would enhance traffic safety.

Amended Ch. 272, Stats. 1993. Effective August 2, 1993.

CVC section 587:
Stop or Stopping

587. "Stop or stopping" when prohibited shall mean any cessation of movement of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the direction of a police officer or official traffic control device or signal.

Added Ch. 1917, Stats. 1961. Effective September 15, 1961.

Merriam-Webster definition of STOP

http://www2.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/mwdictsn?book=Dictionary&va=stop

"...STOP (http://www2.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/mwdictsn?book=Dictionary&va=stop+)applies to action or progress or to what is operating or progressing and may imply suddenness or definiteness <stopped at the red light...."

In order to complete a STOP, all movement must CEASE! Unless one has remarkable balance and can demonstrate to the Court's satisfaction that ability, one should STOP and, at the very least, place one foot firmly on the roadway to prove that a STOP has taken place. In so doing, one would not certainly diminish the odds of receiving a ticket from an officer. :biggrin:

[JoeyMac323]

In order to complete a STOP, all movement must CEASE! Unless one has remarkable balance and can demonstrate to the Court's satisfaction that ability, one should STOP and, at the very least, place one foot firmly on the roadway to prove that a STOP has taken place. In so doing, one would not certainly diminish the odds of receiving a ticket from an officer. :biggrin:

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Be safe,

JoeyMac

['86 Samurai]

This touches on something I've always wondered. During a right hand turn, when stopping at a stop sign, a vehicle must stop before the marked threshold, correct?

However, after stopping behind the marked threshold what is the legal protocol for continuing that right hand turn? Are you supposed to just creep forwards into view of oncoming traffic (without stopping) until you are able to determine if it is safe to make a turn or is another stop required while making a judgment of on the safety of turning right?

While I can understand the need to stop before plowing into the pedestrian walkway, it seems somewhat counter-intuitive to stop behind the threshold where there is often no visibility of traffic on the main street and then move forward to assess the safety of moving into traffic.

It would seem more straightforward to make one stop and assess both pedestrian and vehicular traffic at the same time.

[retchp]

Papa Bear quotes that "stop means a cessation of movement". . .he then goes on to speak about the foot being placed down. This is not a quote... To me that means he is intreperting the law.

When I rode a civilian M/C (Gold Wing) I and my riding partner (a CHP M/C rider) used to have a contest to see who could ride the farthest without putting a foot down. This was in city traffic and we could each go for many miles. It is all about balance. When we "stopped" we "ceased all motion", and thus were "stopped". Albeit without a foot being placed on the ground.

I would admit that it is all about timing the light and that you cannot hold this balance for very long. But I believe that a ticket for failing to stop would have been a very CS ticket. Tom???.

[Mary-1]

I think PapaBear is correct in the cessation of movement to comply with the law.

The placing of one foot down is just extra to avoid being stopped. Granted it is not required, but I think PapaBear is just giving a recommendation on this to avoid possible trouble.

[Tom]

I've been asked this before as well and I would say Papabear is correct for about 95% of all riders. But I know its possible to cease all motion without putting a foot down - just look at the trials riders!

[PapaBear]

Just for information, I rode enforcement motors for eleven years and am familiar with balance and seeing who could remain so for the longest period of time. However, I submit to you that it is almost impossible for one to stop a motorcycle - without putting a foot down - then properly and safely scanning traffic in all directions to assure a safe acceleration from the stop.

When I taught riding and broke in new riders I insisted that one foot be on the ground when coming to a stop. That complies with the department's program, DMV and all other M/C training that I am aware of!
CS? Perhaps, but it does give you PC for a stop. :doh:

[Tom]

Does this guy stop?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd4zta30zNw

I certainly wouldn't write this guy for not putting his foot down!

[CGMK]

Does this guy stop?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd4zta30zNw

I certainly wouldn't write this guy for not putting his foot down!

Those Gas Gas bikes are sweet. The biggest model (300 CI) only weighs 151 LBS!!

[Tom]

David Chavez actually rides a "Sherco" but yes those are sweet bikes!

[2100VC]

This touches on something I've always wondered. During a right hand turn, when stopping at a stop sign, a vehicle must stop before the marked threshold, correct?

However, after stopping behind the marked threshold what is the legal protocol for continuing that right hand turn? Are you supposed to just creep forwards into view of oncoming traffic (without stopping) until you are able to determine if it is safe to make a turn or is another stop required while making a judgment of on the safety of turning right?

While I can understand the need to stop before plowing into the pedestrian walkway, it seems somewhat counter-intuitive to stop behind the threshold where there is often no visibility of traffic on the main street and then move forward to assess the safety of moving into traffic.

It would seem more straightforward to make one stop and assess both pedestrian and vehicular traffic at the same time.

The rule is the same for stop signs and red lights when it comes to making right turns.

You have to stop at the limit line or if none, at the near line of the crosswalk or if none, before entering the intersection.

After that point it is no longer an issue of a stop sign or red light violation, it is now a right-of-way violation. Many people don't know that 21453(b) (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=82246017721+3+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve) is actually a right-of-way violation and not a violation of a red light.

After stopping you are NOT required to stop anymore unless you would hit somebody.

To make a long story short, yes, you have to stop (where it's required) and then inch your way out until you can see it's clear.

:biggrin:

[x MAIT]

Remember the slow race in motor school?:cool:

[Mac]

As far as I'm concerned (personally - this is not law, policy or anything else), if a motorcycle comes to a complete stop (i.e. wheels NOT rotating/moving) and the rider is talented enough to keep his feet on the pegs/boards, that's good enough for me.

Trials riders....most of those guys can come to a complete stop and stay there for as long as they like without ever putting a foot down. One of the european trials champions enjoyed 'psyching' the competition by balancing on his bike standing up with his hands in his jacket pockets throughout the entire pre-event riders' meeting! Doing it on a GoldWing may be another issue entirely, but there's not a doubt in my mind that a rider like that could easily come to a complete stop and scan an intersection without putting a foot down.

[Tom]

Remember the slow race in motor school?:cool:

I loved that!!!!

[jcalder]

Does this guy stop?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd4zta30zNw

I certainly wouldn't write this guy for not putting his foot down!
I would write him for reg, not stopping.:lol: