References Question for PHS

[aggienut]

Question with regards to references on the PHS. CHP does not allow former co-workers to be listed (even if they are also friends).

Here is my problem... ALL (and yes I mean all) of my friends are past co-workers. I have the okay to use at least a dozen of them as references, but the PHS precludes me from doing this.

I do not (as hard as this may be for some to believe) have any friends from childhood or friends of my family. I do not have friends outside of work.

I have been given some advice by someone in the BIU, but I guess I am wondering if by some wild chance others had this issue or if there is a BI on the boards who actually dealt with a case like this and could share.

Thanks as always.

[snowdog]

So what you are saying is that you have no friends from high school or college that you keep in contact with, your parents kept you locked in your room your entire life and none of the family friends know you exist, you didn't associate with any of the neighbors, if you are married you do not assocaite with any of your spouses friends or family?
If this is the case, it's time to get a life outside of work. I've had many applicants pose the same question who were suprised how many friends they do have once they put a little effort into it.
Good Luck at your QAP.

[aggienut]

So what you are saying is that you have no friends from high school or college that you keep in contact with, your parents kept you locked in your room your entire life and none of the family friends know you exist, you didn't associate with any of the neighbors, if you are married you do not assocaite with any of your spouses friends or family?
If this is the case, it's time to get a life outside of work. I've had many applicants pose the same question who were suprised how many friends they do have once they put a little effort into it.
Good Luck at your QAP.

Home schooled entire life, grew up in the middle of nowhere (no neighbors), the only children I had contact with beat the crap out of me because I was home-schooled and "uncool" family never had friends because of the same deal (and lived in the middle of nowhere). Never associated with people in college except briefly (college, husband, father, full time work, perfect grades= ZERO time). Wife has no friends outside family (college, wife, mother, full time work, perfect grades=ZERO time).

Once we graduated from college now we work full time and have so much going on we don't have time for each other much less other people.

I've never had a neighbor I knew more than in passing (though in the age of boomburgs and bedroom communites why is that unusual?)...they certainly cannot be relied on to speak about me....my ex-co workers can: I spent 50 hours a week for nearly a decade with them and actually have been to some of their homes (though they have not been to mine ha ha).

I know my in-laws (barely) and they know me, but my co-workers know me better than my in-laws much less my in-laws friends-who are not many...not very social (LEO's too, go figure).

You know what gets me the most? If I list old friends who I have kept in touch with (if I had any), they cannot speak for the last 10 years, only when they knew me. They won't say anything bad about me as I was then but that does not speak for who I am NOW so what use is that? People change, I know I sure have (not just in the last 10 years, but in the last 3 or 4).

In the end, if the CHP takes issue with someone who has a case like mine then so be it. Other LEA's do not take such an issue with ex or current co-workers.

I understand the department wants to measure behavior outside formal contexts where someone is putting on a show but my case is what it is. I am sure the BI who gets me will just be thrilled.

Oh...and in case anyone wonders how on earth someone like me managed to get married, I met my wife through a friend....who was a co-worker.:lol:

[PeckerHead]

In the end, if the CHP takes issue with someone who has a case like mine then so be it. Other LEA's do not take such an issue with ex or current co-workers.

Sounds to me like you need to be applying to the other agencies that won't take issue with your situation.

If your life is as you say it is, it doesn''t sound to me like you have the "life experience" the job requires.

Simply put, the instructions are simple, concise and are the way they are for a reason. You don't sound like you are taking this seriously enough. Remember, the ENTIRE application process is your job interview.:doubt:

[dw]

Sounds to me like you need to be applying to the other agencies that won't take issue with your situation.

If your life is as you say it is, it doesn''t sound to me like you have the "life experience" the job requires.

Simply put, the instructions are simple, concise and are the way they are for a reason. You don't sound like you are taking this seriously enough. Remember, the ENTIRE application process is your job interview.:doubt:

While I don't completely agree with PeckerHead here, I was thinking along similar lines. In essence, you lack socialization outside of the workplace. I do not know you or your background, so I am not in a position to form an opinion, but I can tell you that similar situations have been a problem for applicants in the past. A lot is going to depend on your age and other factors that make you "who you are."

In your original post you mentioned being given some advice already. Bottom line is your history is what it is -- now is a little late to run out and start hanging out with people outside of work. :wink: ...And I'm not even saying that is necessary, hell -- if I had to name my best references right now many of them would be from work. All you can do at this point is work with what you have -- put the best information down you can. Maybe the people you list as references won't be the best references in your life; you'll have an opportunity during your initial interview to explain that to your BI.

As with almost everyone, I encourage you to apply and continue in the process. The worst we can say is "no thanks."

[aggienut]

Thanks to all for their input on this. The issue is complex and there is no doubt about it.

I would have to say this though....I do not lack socialization skills....in fact I specialize in them educationally, professionally and personally-in a sense they are my strength.


Life experience? I had more life experience at 19 (working to support my whole family and going to school full time under tons of other adversity)than most people have at 30...it would be sad if that is held against me. The fact is: I am a private person, so is my family, so is my wife. If that is an issue for the CHP, I fear it is just one of the many things I am detecting in its process that hurts it more than helps it.

PeckerHead, as for your assertion regarding my approach to the application process-I do take it seriously. I take everything in my life seriously, particularly something I want. When I want something, if I can make it happen, I get it. This is no different.

The simple fact is, if I am being asked to list ONLY friends on the application, that area will be blank with an attached page explaining why and my BI can take it from there.

Best to all this week in their QAP interviews.

[goldendog]

The simple fact is, if I am being asked to list ONLY friends on the application, that area will be blank with an attached page explaining why and my BI can take it from there.




You can do what you want but if I were you I wouldn't leave anything blank. I just dont think that looks good. Correct me if I’m wrong but doesnt the PHS state to list individuals (not just friends) who have knowledge of you or your personal qualifications? That could be anybody. Do you know any of your C0-workers parents? I put one of my good friends parent down as a reference. What about one of your parents good friend?

College is a great life experience to have. That’s why I find it hard to believe that you spent 4-5 years in college and don’t have a single contact that you could use as a reference. I spent 5 years in college and met people I'll know forever. Maybe that explains my C average.

Good luck..

[aggienut]

You can do what you want but if I were you I wouldn't leave anything blank. I just dont think that looks good. Correct me if I’m wrong but doesnt the PHS state to list individuals (not just friends) who have knowledge of you or your personal qualifications? That could be anybody. Do you know any of your C0-workers parents? I put one of my good friends parent down as a reference. What about one of your parents good friend?

College is a great life experience to have. That’s why I find it hard to believe that you spent 4-5 years in college and don’t have a single contact that you could use as a reference. I spent 5 years in college and met people I'll know forever. Maybe that explains my C average.

Good luck..

You would be correct...its does say that. But it also says no co-workers. Now, my references are ex-co-workers (they work for the same umbrella company I do, but in a different office in another part of the state I used to work in) BUT the new PHS Guide we were given states "no past or present co-workers". I am leaning towards putting them down anyway and then qualifying it on an additional page.

"I spent 5 years in college and met people I'll know forever. Maybe that explains my C average." :lol:

Honestly though, you generally associate with those you have something in common with. I had ZERO in common with 98% of the people I went to school with. I was a husband, father, professional, older etc. etc. It was impossible....totally different worldviews. I came in tired from playing with my daughter and studying all weekend, they came in tired from partying. The few I did actually talk to? Very little. I bolted off campus after classes all day so I could go home and see my beautiful wife...damn priorities :biggrin:

Also, I know this is probably top secret, but why the insistence on "friends"? I don't just ask because it an issue for me...I would ask if it wasn't because I take issue with rules and things that purport to accomplish "X" but in practice actually accomplish "Z" (for example: Anti-Lock brakes "save lives" but also cost them because people drive less responsibly because they believe the technology will save them).

Is it because the department wants impartiality on the part of references? I hope not. Friends are the least impartial people.....something to chew on.

[dw]

Also, I know this is probably top secret, but why the insistence on "friends"? .... Is it because the department wants impartiality on the part of references? I hope not. Friends are the least impartial people.....something to chew on.
Yeah, we know friends are not impartial witnesses -- we have done this before (not just backgrounds but investigation in general). We ask for references who are your friends because we're going to go to everywhere you've worked in the past seven years and talk to your co-workers regardless. List your "friends who are co-workers" in the co-worker section.

I've said it before, you'll have a chance to explain all this to your BI. The whole point of the investigation is to learn about you, your life, and your past. All the things you are pointing out here will become apparent very quickly to your BI through the discussions you have.

Don't spend so much time worrying about why we do things a certain way -- just fill out the paperwork, list your closest non-co-worker friends (even if they're not very close at all) and explain the rest. Then sit back, relax, and let your BI intrude into all aspects of your life.

[CHPUSMC]

Don't spend so much time worrying about why we do things a certain way -- just fill out the paperwork,

That is the best advice I have EVER seen. Awesome!