Incident Report Procedure

[slowfiveoh]

Ok. Time for me to be the Semi-forum-bad-guy-thing again.

Is there anything that a motorist can request or is entitled to when an officer is being a poor representative of his dept and is acting in a totally unprofessional manner?

For instance lets say that an officer were to walk up to a 50 year old man who knew he was speeding, and was just ready to treat the officer with respect when the officer comes up and blatantly lays into said individual rudely. Maybe by referring to this individual as "boy", or some other derogatory remarks(insert use of imagination here). Is it within the motorists rights to demand to see that officers superior?

Not tryin to stir the hornets nest boys, just wondering what the rights are for the motorist in the event of a traffic stop. Thanks

[SB 405]

Gezz,back to stir the pot again with more of this BS....amazing. You sure have a short memory,all this was answered for you a month ago.

[Dipmo]

Gezz,back to stir the pot again with more of this BS....amazing. You sure have a sort memory,all this was answered for you a month ago.

As much as he seems to try and stir it up, he always gets met with nothing but respect from the officers here. It must seem sort of anti climatic for him...

[SB 405]

Hey slo....go over to the chp.net forum and ask around for a nice man named Lt.John. He's full of law enforcement knowledge and im sure he'd be more than happy to answer all your questions.:badgrin: I think you two were ment for each other and you'll get along real well.

[dw]

Ok. Time for me to be the Semi-forum-bad-guy-thing again.

Is there anything that a motorist can request or is entitled to when an officer is being a poor representative of his dept and is acting in a totally unprofessional manner?

For instance lets say that an officer were to walk up to a 50 year old man who knew he was speeding, and was just ready to treat the officer with respect when the officer comes up and blatantly lays into said individual rudely. Maybe by referring to this individual as "boy", or some other derogatory remarks(insert use of imagination here). Is it within the motorists rights to demand to see that officers superior?

Not tryin to stir the hornets nest boys, just wondering what the rights are for the motorist in the event of a traffic stop. Thanks

Well, I'm going to go down the avenue of this being a legitimate question. I'm not going to pretend that everyone in law enforcement is perfect. (We are human, after all. ;) ) When on the receiving end of an enforcement contact, most people aren't happy -- no doubt many make false complaints regarding an officer's conduct. In some cases however, the officer is out of line. Maybe it's a one time thing, or maybe he's like that to everyone.

To answer your question, slowfiveoh, outside of an officer violating your civil rights, you really don't have any "rights," per-se. Ultimately, you must abide by the officer you are dealing with at the time -- to do otherwise is probably not a good idea. (You may think you have "rights" and refuse to comply with an officer's commands, which the officer interprets as passive resistance -- things go downhill from there.) That said, you can certainly "request" to speak to a supervisor. Again, outside of gross misconduct or criminal behavior on the officer's part, I would suggest treating the officer with respect and contacting his/her supervisor after the contact has concluded.

The response you get from a supervisor will vary from agency to agency. I can only speak for the CHP, but I assure you all complaints are thoroughly investigated. This is not some BS line I'm feeding you, we truly investigate every single complaint. Our policies and procedures for investigating such are public (as required by law) and available through the publications unit in Sacramento. Our Department has been saved a lot of embarrassment by investigating all citizens complaints and taking necessary action to "police ourselves." I remember a Dateline (or similar) segment in the '90s. I can't remember if the camera was hidden or not, but they went to several agencies in the south-land to see how difficult it was to file a complaint. At least one supervisor from a large agency flat out told them to pound sand.

I will tell you that I record all my contacts because it is unbelievable what people allege an officer said -- often complete falsifications.

You also have to remember that people are rarely happy with the performance of law enforcement. We will get formal complaints because an officer took too long to respond to an incident. We will get formal complaints because an officer drove too fast in response to a call (the details of which the citizen usually has no knowledge). I've had people complain I had no authority to stop them because my forward red lights didn't flash (California law requires a steady-burning forward red light).

If an officer is truly out-of-line, however, I encourage the public to contact a supervisor. Supervisors need this knowledge to effectively do their job. Again, if it's a one time thing, it's probably not the end of the world for the officer. But is an officer makes a habit of tarnishing the Department's image or abusing his authority, he will be dealt with accordingly.

"Good guy" letters are also appreciated. Although we have a thankless job, and no one expects anything in return, an occasional letter is a huge boost. It reminds is why we're out there and also lets our supervisors we're providing the public the service they expect -- maybe even a little more.

[bcjack]

slo:

The best advice I can give you is to read closely what dw wrote and follow it. Even if the Officer was a total ass, you arguing, being an ass, or "Demanding" to speak to a Supervisor during the traffic stop is a "No win" situation for you!!!

Try this...Gather your thoughts, calm down, and wait 48 hours...If you still think you were wronged, contact the Officer's Supervisor and tell your story. DO NOT USE THE MEETING WITH THE SUPERVISOR TO PLEAD YOUR CASE ABOUT THE CITATION!!! That is what court is for. Be honest and tell your side of the story. Please don't waste the Supervisor's time with a complaint that is more about getting a citation than it is about the Officer treating you bad.

And...don't forget the "Thank You" note if an opportunity presents itself...Most people forget the good stuff Officers do for us every day...

[retchp]

I probably got one complaint per year or a total of around thirty for my career. Everything from theft of the violators sunglasses to being rude. I probably had (conservatively) a hundred thousand contacts during that time. Of the total of thirty complaints only three or four were ever sustained and that is because I was rude or something and readily admitted it when asked by a supervisor. I think that is probably about average for a long term officer and if you like math run the numbers and you will see that four sustained complaints out of a hundred K contacts is statistically meaningless.
You can also discern that about thirteen of fifteen violators are liars from the same stats.
I also know officers who have collected civil judgments from violators for making false complaints against them, but I think that ability to collect has been done away with over the years.
No officer I ever knew got out of the car on a stop intending to piss someone off, get into a fight, get shot or get a complaint. We just want to conduct our business and go home.

[dw]

Regarding lying, this is a great segment. http://www.abcnewsstore.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=customer.product&product_code=P010315%2001&category_code=30

In a part of it, they show video surveillance of "honor system" toll lanes where the driver is supposed to throw money into the bucket as they pass. They show people slowing down and passing with windows rolled up, throwing pennies in, making a gesture but not depositing money, etc... Then they show the same person stopped by the local fuzz -- adamant they paid and were a victim.

[bcjack]

dw:

Your link went to a shopping cart...No video showing...

[SB 405]

Hey slo...Why pick up a phone and call your local CHP office and ask them what your options are?

[dw]

dw:

Your link went to a shopping cart...No video showing...

Hmmmm... If you google "primetime live lying" it is the first hit.

[Fuller]

I have a question for dw:

You mentioned that you record all of your contacts. Is an officer required to disclose to the motorist that he is recording the conversation during a traffic stop? Also, do officers then archive all of their recorded conversations for potential future use in a court situation?

[Tom]

There are two answers to that question maybe three. The first...no...we are NOT required to disclose that the stop is being taped (either video or audio)..the right to privacy is limited during a traffic stop/detention. Second, yes and no and maybe, that is solely up to the Officer. I do know of a court in the Bay area that the judge will fine the violator more if he/she perjures himself/herself in court. That is after the initial comments and the playing of the Officers tape.

Tom

[bcjack]

When I was a Reserve Officer, I loved working traffic. I, too, recorded all of my stops and saved all of the tapes. I used the tapes on almost all of my court trips and seldom lost a case. The tapes really make a big impression on the judge when the motorist would testi-lie that he or she was not speeding, and I would play the tape that started..."Do you know why I stopped you?" and the reply was "Yea, I was going too fast, huh".

Tape recording also saved my ass once when a female I stopped and DID NOT cite (My Bad!!) went to the station accusing me of "Stopping her just so I could try pick up on her" (She was really ugly!!) The tape revealed that I asked her for her license, insurance and registration, told her I stopped her for rolling through a stop sign, and told her that the Stop Sign meant a complete stop and tolds her she was free to go. When she heard my tape, she recanted her story and said she was mad because she just had a fight with her boyfriend(ex) and was just pissed off generally. She then apologized. The tape was the deal breaker (My tone of voice and general demeanor):smile:

[Your Mentor]

Fuller,
An officer is NOT required to disclose any recording, video or audio, during a traffic stop. Case law holds that there is NO expectation of privacy during a traffic stop or any other law enforcement contact. Such disclosure only applies when there is an expectation of privacy that can be asserted; basically NEVER when talking to a uniformed officer. Any statements made during a detention do not come under the requirements of Miranda because the 'custody' element is missing. And many officers have successfully sued civilians for making false accusations about their conduct where it was shown on audio or video that the officer did not behave in the stereotypical manner civilians often assert.

As for archiving, we are only required to keep our copies of traffic citations for one year and so most officers back up tapes to cassettes and hold onto them for a year as well. I use a digital recorder and so archive all my recordings to CD which I can hold onto indefinitely.

[Fuller]

I would be doing the same thing if I were an officer. It's all about CYA.

[Mac]

And many officers have successfully sued civilians for making false accusations about their conduct where it was shown on audio or video that the officer did not behave in the stereotypical manner civilians often assert.

Yep....I personally know one officer who was granted a NICE civil judgment as a result of one of these cases. The complainant claimed that the officer cursed at him and used racial slurs.....the officer's tape recording of the incident proved that he was completely civil and professional throughout the contact, never even so much as raising his voice. The complainant, of course, had NO idea that the stop was being recorded. The officer sued him, and it was a slam-dunk case in court when he played the tape.

As YourMentor said, there is no requirement whatsoever that officers disclose the fact that they're taping...and many DO tape, just for CYA purposes. It's a great way to avoid the "he said/she said" issue.