High Speed Pursuit Survey

[SBstudent]

Hi, Im a college student doing a research paper on High Speed Pursuits for my Administration of Justice class. If any officers could provide knowledge and thier opinions, it would greatly be appreciated!
Just give your thoughts on the following
If you're an officer outside of CA please let me know what state you're from so i can show differences in state policies

1. First Thoughts that run through your mind at the begining of an High Speed Pursuit or fleeing suspect.
2. Procedures that must be followed at the begining of an High Speed Pursuit
3. Any good and interesting High Speed Pursuit Stories?
4. Thoughts and beliefs on new(Safety) procedures in High Speed Pursuits - (Agree or Disagree)?
5. High Speed Chases - Need to be banned due to public safety?
6. Are current Procedures working? Anything you would change?
7. ANYTHING else that you think would be an important addition to my paper

ANY AND ALL REPLIES WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!
THANK YOU

[PapaBear]

Hi there! As I read your survey I noticed that a number of the queries deal with policy. Those won't be addressed within this forum; at least, not by me. I will address my experience with pursuits. They are scarey and dangerous. However, because the subject driver refuses to stop and an officer has no overall knowledge of why the party refuses to yield, it becomes essential, for the overall public safety - including law enforcement - to apprehend the individual and remove the hazard from the roadway. Depending on the length of the chase, the officer may obtain additional information regarding the vehicle or driver which may be helpful; but, for the most part the officer is not privy to the subject's thinking.

Every officer wants a peaceful and uneventful termination to the pursuit. That emotion is fulfilled by the thinking of the other party. I am quite certain that I can speak for every officer when I say that it is extremely difficult to harness and control all of the adrenaline and emotion at the termination point and that is probably the most stressful period of time and the critical period of mental health for all involved.

I believe that you may be able to get additional questions answered at your local CHP, Police or Sheriff facility near UCSB. They will NOT discuss policy!!!

Pursuits are dangerous! They are unnecessary! They are often a precipitant factor of some irrational individual who thinks he/she can escape the law by breaking the law. There are no winners in a pursuit.

One final comment: Until the criminal element accepts and recognizes they are not going to win the public's support by engaging in such activity, pursuits will be a continuing problem in the community. I mention "criminal element" because once one decides to run, one is removed from the compliant community and placed into the criminal aspect.

Strictly my opine based on 30+ years of law enforcement and innumerable pursuits.

[Mac]

1. First Thoughts that run through your mind at the begining of an High Speed Pursuit or fleeing suspect.
Not printable. Something along the lines of "&#@%*#!!!"

2. Procedures that must be followed at the begining of an High Speed Pursuit
Policy - not discussed here.

3. Any good and interesting High Speed Pursuit Stories?
Lots of 'em.

4. Thoughts and beliefs on new(Safety) procedures in High Speed Pursuits - (Agree or Disagree)?
You can't make a pursuit 100% safe. Devices should be placed in every vehicle manufactured which allow law enforcement to immediately immobilize the vehicle, and removal of such devices should be a felony resulting in prison time. All vehicles should be governed to go no faster than 75 mph.

5. High Speed Chases - Need to be banned due to public safety?
NO. If you ban pursuits, every criminal will simply run, knowing that they can't be pursued. The potential danger of a pursuit can't be compared to the danger of letting an armed robber/murderer/etc. run free in public without fear of apprehension.

6. Are current Procedures working? Anything you would change?
Yes - I'd institute a policy wherein deadly force was authorized IMMEDIATELY against any suspect who was involved in a pursuit. (I'm speaking purely for myself - my views do not represent any law enforcement agency in any way). If this policy was publicized extensively prior to implementation, then the person who chose to flee would know EXACTLY what they had coming. It wouldn't take many such incidents before people realized that there was no messing around - if you run, you get shot, period. You won't be allowed to endanger innocent persons with your irresponsible and potentially homicidal actions.

7. ANYTHING else that you think would be an important addition to my paper
The responsibility for the consequences of a pursuit should be placed squarely where it belongs - on the person who chose to flee from law enforcement. That person and that person alone precipitated the situation, and is fully responsible for the aftermath of their decision.

[x MAIT]

Hi, Im a college student doing a research paper on High Speed Pursuits for my Administration of Justice class. If any officers could provide knowledge and thier opinions, it would greatly be appreciated!
Just give your thoughts on the following
If you're an officer outside of CA please let me know what state you're from so i can show differences in state policies

1. First Thoughts that run through your mind at the begining of an High Speed Pursuit or fleeing suspect.
2. Procedures that must be followed at the begining of an High Speed Pursuit
3. Any good and interesting High Speed Pursuit Stories?
4. Thoughts and beliefs on new(Safety) procedures in High Speed Pursuits - (Agree or Disagree)?
5. High Speed Chases - Need to be banned due to public safety?
6. Are current Procedures working? Anything you would change?
7. ANYTHING else that you think would be an important addition to my paper

ANY AND ALL REPLIES WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!
THANK YOU

1. Why is this person fleeing? Don't crash. I wonder how much paperwork this is going to cause?
2. Don't crash.
3. Yes. Too many to post here.
4. What new procedures? Did somebody change the rules?
5. Have you heard about the major city officer who aborted a pursuit of a vehicle that was later found and linked to the Night Stalker? Probably not. Could you imagine if the North Hollywood bank robbers both made it to their vehicle and drove away, and nobody chased them because it was against the rules. Could you imagine if your parents, wife, child, etc. was just run over by a drunk driver and a police unit was right there, but did not chase the vehicle because of policy? Such rules would only make it easier for the criminals, they do not make it safer for the public. The public is safer when anyone who decides to run is caught and put in jail for a very long time.
6. Have you seen any PIT videos?
7. You have a difficult paper to write. You have asked for many things that are confidential and most people here will not respond. If you would like to email me I can give you some pursuit stories, but I will not discuss policy matters. Good luck.

[NWTSCL]

Why is everyone so against discussing policy and procedural guidelines of a public agency? Is it simply because this forum/website does not want to get involved, which is understandable, or is there more to it than that?

[G-Man]

Why is everyone so against discussing policy and procedural guidelines of a public agency? Is it simply because this forum/website does not want to get involved, which is understandable, or is there more to it than that?

A lot of department policy cannot be discussed. There are certain portions that may be released, but that is at the disgression of the department, not us on this board.

[23112]

Why is everyone so against discussing policy and procedural guidelines of a public agency? Is it simply because this forum/website does not want to get involved, which is understandable, or is there more to it than that?

Not all policy/procedures are a matter of public disclosure (i.e., a lot of it is confidential). Anyone can get on this site--including criminals--and, if we disclosed certain matters of policy, we would be giving out information that could give somebody an advantage and place ourselves in danger.

For example, (this is obviously hypothetical) if it were a confidential policy that we don't pursue a suspect if he runs while driving a red pick up truck, what kind of vehicle would the criminal reading this website for an "edge" start driving? Or if it were policy that we aborted a pursuit when a suspect broke the 100 mph mark, wouldn't a criminal then think, "Shoot, I'll just break the 100 mph barrier to get the police off my tail!"?

It isn't so much a matter of not wanting to "get involved" as it is more of a matter of maintaining an element of surprise. If everything we do becomes predictable, we're in a much more dangerous position dealing with people who would love nothing more than to hurt us. I hope that makes sense.

[NWTSCL]

It does make sense. Thanks G-Man and 23112 for the comments. I realize that this forum probably is not the place to disclose such info. But perhaps a phone call or letter to the appropriate person(s) could help.

[dw]

It does make sense. Thanks G-Man and 23112 for the comments. I realize that this forum probably is not the place to disclose such info. But perhaps a phone call or letter to the appropriate person(s) could help.

You can contact the Department's Publications Unit in Sacramento for a copy of all public policies. I can tell you in advance however, that the vast majority of policies you're interested in are confidential and will be omitted in the copy your receive.

[bcjack]

MANDATORY, NON-DISCRETIONARY, NON-NEGOTIABLE, PRISON SENTENCE FOR ANYONE WHO RUNS!!!!!!

The Judge, District Attorney etc. are FORBIDDEN from doing anything except sentencing the %&**#$#@# to PRISON...

YOU RUN...YOU GO TO PRISON FOR 5 CONSECUTIVE YEARS!!! No "good behavior". NOTHING!!!!!!!

YOU HURT OR KILL SOMEONE...YOU GO TO PRISON FOR LIFE!!!! NO PAROLE...NO GOOD BEHAVIOR...NO 80%!!!!

Just plain old ordinary GOOD BYE!!!! SEE YOU NEVER!!!!!!!

[Mac]

It does make sense. Thanks G-Man and 23112 for the comments. I realize that this forum probably is not the place to disclose such info. But perhaps a phone call or letter to the appropriate person(s) could help.
As DW said - even though many of our manuals can be purchased through the Publications Unit, any policy that is deemed confidential would be redacted (omitted) from any manual distributed outside of the Department itself. The vast majority of our policies and procedures relating to officer safety/survival, enforcement tactics and enforcement policy are confidential in nature, and would be redacted.

[David]

Along the lines of what some others have posted, I have an excellent column by former Commissioner Maury Hannigan about why he feels banning pursuits would be foolish.

He sights the fact that serial killer Ted Bundy was caught in Florida after a pursuit that started after he ran from an officer who tried to pull him over for a license place violation.

He also mentions that Randy Kraft(who murdered 16 people) was arrested after being pulled over for lane straddling, and that if the CHP officers had been prohibited from pursuing and let him get away, he may have killed more people.

[SweetTaterPie]

Not to mention the stark example we all received, back when, as a result of Fresno Police Department's decision to prohibit there officers engaging in pursuits. Rampant criminal mayhem, and exponentially more dangerous pursuits with allied agencies in their jurisdiction.

[SBstudent]

Thanks for all the replies guys. It was really helpful!