Student Tasered at UCLA

[jaybb]

What do you all think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3CdNgoC0cE&eurl=

All of the witnesses say that the student was leaving with his backpack on as the police began to taser him -- after failing to produce his UCLA ID card, which is required after 11pm; he was also tasered multiple times after he was cuffed. Also, all the witnesses seem to agree that he could not move after the repeated tasings and he was being told to comply even as he was being tased. UCLA Police say that the student was attempting to "incite" the students, but this video doesn't seem to show that.

I think the taser is a great tool in place of lethal force, but this seems a bit excessive. There were a number of officers there, they could have just removed the kid. You can also hear one guy and one girl asking for an officers badge number and the officer saying to "stand back or you will be tased."

[countersteer]

I bet there is a whole lot more to this story than the one-sided tag line of the youtube.com video. I was tazered in the Academy and once the shock is stopped, you have full movement of your body. When I got tazed, I fell to the ground, once the five seconds was up, I stood up on my feet and felt fine. Our whole class recovered right away. If you watch other tazer videos, you can see people are able to stand on their own and walk. The tazer video featured on COPS involving that big dude who didn't want to put his hands behind his back is a classic example. Once the shock stops, the pain stops. The tazer is a compliance tool, and that kid was not being compliant. As far as that kid being tazered for "not showing ID", I doubt the several officers (Including a Sergeant that I saw on screen), would risk their jobs for a student who wouldn't show ID in the library. Remember, we are seeing when the action starts. The camara coveniently wasn't rolling to show us what happened prior to the altercation.

[SB 405]

I heard because he wouldn't show ID he was asked to leave,and that's where the trouble started.

[Mac]

I bet there is a whole lot more to this story than the one-sided tag line of the youtube.com video...
I'd put good money on that.

...and the tag line IS very one-sided. "STUDENT tazed..." creates images of an innocent school pupil.....similar to the newspapers plastering "13-year old shot by police" when it was in fact a hardcore 13-year old gang member wielding a gun. Sensationalism sells.

[Vapula]

The officers told him several times to stand up and he didn't. He also was resisting by going limp.

[jaybb]

I could be wrong, but after being tasered three times at five seconds each, isn't it hard to stand up? Not to mention the kid was already in cuffs.

[SB 405]

Any video I've ever watched that envolve tasers the person is always asked/told to do something first (hands up,turn around etc...) more than a few times by Officers. Most times all the Officers get in return is "lip service" I mean how long can police wait for a suspect to get with the program?

[G-Man]

I could be wrong, but after being tasered three times at five seconds each, isn't it hard to stand up? Not to mention the kid was already in cuffs.

I have not been tazered myself, but I have heard that once the five seconds is up you are able to get up and move around. It is not like OC spray which has lingering effects. Kinda like a static shock, it makes you jump, but once it is over you're fine.:biggrin: A lot of people crave attention, "Look at me, police abuse." So they act it up. Which exactly what this kid was probably doing, "here's your patriot act."

Ask, Tell, Make.

Only in this case I heard, Ask, tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, make. They were giving him ample warning.

[TypeS]

The officers told him several times to stand up and he didn't. He also was resisting by going limp.
a few? I think they said it 100 times!

[Welpe]

I saw the video on the news last night. The guy kept resisting and disobeying officers, big deal. I guess they could've just drug him across the ground but he probably would've been more banged up from that than being TASERed.

Were they using the prongs or the drive stun on him?

[TahoeTex]

I could be wrong, but after being tasered three times at five seconds each, isn't it hard to stand up? Not to mention the kid was already in cuffs.

Having been tazed myself, I can tell you that the 5 seconds hurt like hell but once it's done, you don't feel anything other than a little nervous energy. I was tazed for a demonstration (it also served as my qualification tazing) and knocked out push-up immediately upon the completion of my 5 seconds.

I haven't seen the video but it sounds like it was either the M-35 or X-35 and the prongs were used. Those don't feel great either when they are pulled out but it's nothing horribly painful

[CHPGuy]

I love it!!! "I totally want your information dude!" He cried like a little girl.

[PapaBear]

ADDENDUM: The student, who happens to be of middle eastern descent, has hired civil rights attorney Stephen Yagman. UCLA Police - Standby! "You just cannot treat children like that!" "It is all stereotyping. Just because he is middle eastern. Since when is that a crime?"

As an aside: How many of you can identify the race of an individual driving in the fast lane at 90MPH as you are entering the freeway at traffic speed? Not me! Yet, when you stop a minority the first thing out of their mouth is "You stopped me because ...!" Yeah, right! Press hard, four copies.

[jeremyscreek]

Justified!!! Next time, do as you're told!!!

[G-Man]

You'll never guess what I just heard... they are gonna have a rally held at UCLA, isn't that just absolutely unheard of?!?!? :biggrin:

[NorCalN00b]

We all weren't there and we all don't know the whole story so lets not judge too quickly.

[Mac]

You'll never guess what I just heard... they are gonna have a rally held at UCLA, isn't that just absolutely unheard of?!?!? :biggrin:
Now THERE'S a surprise! :rolleyes:

Maybe WE should start having rallies/demonstrations over things like this.

[Your Mentor]

It's interesting, and monumentally depressing, to see EVERY use of force story presented by sources outside of law enforcement painted in such a way that an arrestee becomes a victim. One fact that is immediately lost on the public is that, whether the response was appropriate or not, the person, not LE, in some way, brought the two together. We don't contact people for no reason whatsoever. I don't stop people who are driving within the limits of the law. Even if I'm bored out of my mind. So this person, instantly transformed into a victim by a non-journalistic media venue, forced the confrontation. And EVERY story portrayed by the mainstream media is squed in favor of the violator unless an officer dies. What makes you think a website like that is going to get any of the facts right? I don't condone real misuses of force but I always question these stories until a full investigation has been conducted.

[Mac]

...I don't condone real misuses of force but I always question these stories until a full investigation has been conducted.
Ex-AAAAAACTLY. Not saying that it never happens, because it certainly does.....but the TRUE occurrences of misuse of force/excessive force are MUCH more rare than the (liberal) media would have the public believe.

[SB 405]

Here it is guys...."game on"


LOS ANGELES, November 17, 2006 - A UCLA student shocked with a Taser gun by a campus police officer after refusing requests to show his ID card thought he was being singled out because of his Middle Eastern appearance, his lawyer said.

Attorney Stephen Yagman said he plans to file a federal civil rights lawsuit accusing the UCLA police of "brutal excessive force," as well as false arrest stemming from the Tuesday night incident at a campus library.
Yagman's client, Mostafa Tabatabainejad, was shocked as police did a routine check of student IDs at the University of California, Los Angeles Powell Library computer lab.

Yagman said Tabatabainejad declined to produce his school ID because he thought he was being targeted because of his appearance. The 23-year-old senior is of Iranian descent but is a U.S.-born resident of Los Angeles.

Tabatabainejad eventually decided to leave the library but fell limp on the floor when an officer escorting him out wouldn't take his hand off him, Yagman said. Tabatabainejad didn't want to participate in what he considered was a case of racial profiling, the lawyer said.

The student started yelling and screaming after police started using the Taser to gather attention and get the officer to stop, according to Yagman.

"Generally, police don't want to do their dirties in front of a lot of witnesses," he said.

But police have said Tabatabainejad encouraged others at the library to join his resistance, and when a crowd began to gather, an officer used the stun gun on him. They said it was long-standing policy to ask students to show ID at libraries late at night to keep the campus safe.

Tabatabainejad was arrested for resisting and obstructing a police officer and later released on his own recognizance.

The incident was recorded on another student's camera phone and showed Tabatabainejad screaming while on the floor of the computer lab. It was the third incident in a month in which police behavior in the city was criticized after amateur video surfaced. The other two involved the Los Angeles Police Department.

UCLA's interim chancellor, Norman Abrams, urged the public to withhold judgment while the campus police department investigates.

Student activists were planning a midday rally Friday to protest the incident, and several civil rights organizations including Amnesty International and the Council on American-Islamic Relations were calling for an independent review.

[PapaBear]

[quote=G-Man]You'll never guess what I just heard... they are gonna have a rally held at UCLA, isn't that just absolutely unheard of?!?!? :biggrin:
================================================== =============

Saw on the news this morning that USC students held a rally/demonstration: Seems they are in sympathy with the garment industry and outsourcing; so, a number of students - male and female - stripped down to their underwear and marched across campus asking the administration to buy and sell only merchandise from those manufacturers who recognize human rights and pay a fair and living wage. COOL!!!! Video was also shown.

[G-Man]

[quote=G-Man]You'll never guess what I just heard... they are gonna have a rally held at UCLA, isn't that just absolutely unheard of?!?!? :biggrin:
================================================== =============

Saw on the news this morning that USC students held a rally/demonstration: Seems they are in sympathy with the garment industry and outsourcing; so, a number of students - male and female - stripped down to their underwear and marched across campus asking the administration to buy and sell only merchandise from those manufacturers who recognize human rights and pay a fair and living wage. COOL!!!! Video was also shown.



What and triple the cost of my Nikes??!? (I am kidding, this is in no way mean to be serious....I buy Asics :rolleyes: ).

[David]

STEPHEN YAGMAN IS THE LAWYER?!?!? :shock: Why am I not surprised? :rolleyes:

Do you folks know who Stephen Yagman is? He's the low life piece of scum who sued LAPD after the North Hollywood shootout of 1997 because Emil Matasareanu bled to death on the sidewalk after he was arrested because he didn't get medical attention fast enough.

[Mac]

Well, let's see here:

A UCLA student shocked with a Taser gun by a campus police officer after refusing requests to show his ID card thought he was being singled out because of his Middle Eastern appearance...

....Tabatabainejad declined to produce his school ID because he thought he was being targeted because of his appearance. The 23-year-old senior is of Iranian descent but is a U.S.-born resident of Los Angeles....

...Tabatabainejad eventually decided to leave the library but fell limp on the floor when an officer escorting him out wouldn't take his hand off him, Yagman said. Tabatabainejad didn't want to participate in what he considered was a case of racial profiling, the lawyer said...

...police have said Tabatabainejad encouraged others at the library to join his resistance, and when a crowd began to gather, an officer used the stun gun on him....

.....They said it was long-standing policy to ask students to show ID at libraries late at night to keep the campus safe....

Sounds like the Campus Police made a reasonable request in accordance with their policy with the safety of students in mind, and Tabat-whatzisname had a sh**y attitude, made some very poor assumptions and decisions and got exactly what he deserved.

Student activists were planning a midday rally Friday to protest the incident, and several civil rights organizations including Amnesty International and the Council on American-Islamic Relations were calling for an independent review.
Imagine that. So this rabid activist has a rabid activist attorney and some rabid activist groups lining up behind him. I hope the UCLA Campus Police (and any judge this eventually goes before) tells them all to pound sand. Tabat-whatchacallim fully justified their use of the Taser by his own admissions.

[bcjack]

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!:badgrin:

[PeckerHead]

I could be wrong, but after being tasered three times at five seconds each, isn't it hard to stand up? Not to mention the kid was already in cuffs.

jaybb..Weren't you the same guy who attended USC, came from Florida State and was ticketed five times for your window tint? Are you just visiting this forum, or are you in the application process?:biggrin:shock:ubt:

[retchp]

The local news where I live described it as a "Taser Attack!!" 'FILM AT ELEVEN!!!"

[SB 405]

Gee,college students not getting along with campus police....who woulda thunk it?

[Mac]

Gee,college students not getting along with campus police....who woulda thunk it?
Not exactly a *recent* societal trend, is it? :badgrin:

[not5150]

As a former UCLA student, I've got to say most of the students are left-leaning.

Everyone must show ID to enter the libraries late at night. So this guy should have just complied after being told god knows how many times to provide ID.

All students know of this rule. There is no excuse for ignorance here.

[Welpe]

There was an article today in the LA Slimes err Times about this. Evidently the University Administration is turning to an "independent watchdog organization" to do a third party investigation.

The Iranian-Student Society (or something similar to that) also staged a march and demonstration at UCLA. I'll see if I can find the article.

[Welpe]

UCLA orders outside probe of TASER arrest

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-me-taser18nov18,1,3901386.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

UCLA orders outside probe of Taser arrest
The move comes hours after a protest march by more than 200 students.
By Richard Winton, Rong-Gong Lin II and Charles Proctor
Times Staff Writers

November 18, 2006

Hoping to calm the furor created when UCLA police used a Taser to subdue a student studying in Powell Library, the university's acting chancellor announced Friday that a veteran Los Angeles law enforcement watchdog would head up an independent investigation of the incident.

Norman Abrams said he ordered the probe after the university received numerous calls and e-mails from parents and alumni raising concerns about the officers' actions during the videotaped Tuesday night arrest, which has been widely seen on TV news and the YouTube website.

"I want to assure them that the UCLA campus is a safe environment. Student safety and treatment are of paramount concern at UCLA," Abrams said. "We plan to move ahead promptly with a complete and unbiased review."

Abrams appointed Merrick Bobb, who was a staff attorney for the Christopher Commission and currently works as the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors' watchdog over the Sheriff's Department, to handle the probe. Abrams said Bobb has a proven track record looking into allegations of police misconduct, including the Rodney King beating and more recently the riots at the L.A. County jail system.

The move came hours after more than 200 students marched to the UCLA police station calling for an independent investigation into the Taser incident as well as the suspension of the officers involved.

Wearing signs reading, "I am a student, don't Taser me" and chanting, "Tasers out of UC," the protesters said it was an inherent conflict of interest for university police to handle the investigation of their own officers.

"What was done was unnecessary," said Rahmatullah Akbar, a senior majoring in psychology. "We as students don't deserve to be Tasered."

Tuesday's incident occurred about 11 p.m. in a library filled with students studying for midterm examinations.

According to the university, Mostafa Tabatabainejad, a 23-year-old senior, was asked for his ID as part of a routine nightly procedure to make sure that everyone using the library after 11 p.m. is a student or otherwise authorized to be there. Campus officials have said the long-standing policy was adopted to ensure students' safety.

Authorities said Tabatabainejad refused repeated requests by community service officers and regular campus police to provide identification or to leave.

UCLA Police Chief Karl Ross said the officers decided to use the Taser to incapacitate Tabatabainejad after he went limp while they were escorting him out and urged other library patrons to join his resistance.

Mavrick Goodrich, a chemical engineering major who observed the incident, said Tabatabainejad shouted, "Am I the only martyr?"

Some witnesses disputed the officers' account, saying that when campus police arrived, Tabatabainejad had begun to walk toward the door.

Tabatabainejad's attorney, Stephen Yagman, said his client refused to show his ID because he thought he was being singled out because of his Middle Eastern appearance. Tabatabainejad is of Iranian descent but is a U.S. citizen by birth and a resident of Los Angeles.

The student was shocked five times with the Taser, Yagman said.

Another student used a cellphone camera to record portions of the incident, in which Tabatabainejad can be heard screaming in pain when the Taser shocks are administered.

One of the issues Bobb's investigation will examine is whether the officers complied with the university police rules for using Tasers.

Several local police agencies ? including the LAPD and Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department ? allow officers to use Tasers only if a suspect poses a physical threat or is acting combatively.

The sheriff's policies expressly say deputies can't use Tasers simply to move someone.

"We look for assaultive conduct," said Bill McSweeney, chief of the sheriff's leadership and training division "We generally don't use the Taser on passive resisters except when an individual indicates explosive action to follow, such as a verbal threat."

But UCLA police are allowed to use Tasers on passive resisters as "a pain compliance technique," Assistant Chief Jeff Young said in an interview Friday.

Under UCLA policy, Young said, officers can use the weapons after considering the potential injury to police and to the individual as well as the level of resistance and the need for prompt resolution.

Young described Tabatabainejad as a "passive resister" who refused to cooperate with officers. He acknowledged that the student didn't actively resist the officers.

"He was 200 pounds and went limp and was very hard to manage. They were trying to get him on his feet," Young said.

The officers used the device in stun mode ? which affects only the part of the body being touched ? rather than the dart mode, in which tiny electrodes are fired into a person and pass a current through them, disabling the person entirely.

Young said police have used the Tasers "on several occasions" before but said he didn't know how many times.

The officers involved in Tuesday's incident were off duty Friday but had not been placed on administrative leave.

On Friday, many students remained outraged over Tabatabainejad's treatment.

"Once you have him subdued, you don't have to keep Tasing him," said Rohit Mahajan, a psychobiology major who watched the video. "You could see him crying. He's not a threat. He's maybe acting like a smartass, but he doesn't" deserve that.

The protest march was organized by leaders of the campus Muslim and Iranian American student groups. They support Tabatabainejad, though some demonstrators said they didn't think the officers' actions were motivated by his ethnicity

The American Civil Liberties Union also said that it was examining the incident.

"It is an appalling and traumatically excessive use of force on someone passive-resisting," said ACLU attorney Peter Bibring. "The officers seem so confident in what they are doing. They need to change their policies and training."

UCLA officials urged students and others to withhold judgment actions until the investigations are completed.

"Not all the events of Tuesday evening can be heard or viewed on YouTube," Ross said at a news conference with Abrams.

The acting chancellor expressed confidence in and respect for the UCLA police, and noted that Ross' department would continue with its own internal investigation.

"But there are times when it is helpful to turn to an outside review as well," Abrams said.

richard.winton@latimes.com

ron.lin@latimes.com

charles.proctor@latimes.com

[Mac]

The American Civil Liberties Union also said that it was examining the incident.

"It is an appalling and traumatically excessive use of force on someone passive-resisting," said ACLU attorney Peter Bibring.
Wow - doesn't sound like the ACLU needs ANY kind of probe of the arrest, they've already determined what the "facts" were.

Imagine what their outcry would be if the UCLA police and/or administration were to issue an equally flat-out statement in the other direction, saying that the officers were positively 100% correct in their conduct.

Has anybody ever seen the ACLU claim that a police officer who was shot in the line of duty by a criminal had HIS civil rights violated????? I guess civil liberties only apply to certain people, huh? Isn't that also the mindset of repressive totalitarian regimes? I think I see a pattern here.......

[Flying Pig]

Not a chance.....however, I have heard a spokesperson of theirs a few years ago claim that Police Officers were paid to be shot at.

[23112]

Un-freaking-believable! I hate how the article stated (more than once) that the UCLA police used a Taser to subdue "a student studying" in the Library. Not quite; they were using pain compliance on a racist jack-ass who has no respect for authority and was inciting a library full of students who outnumbered the officers. The quotes from students who were talking out of their butts got me even more fired up. Why would I care about the opinion of someone who knows little to nothing about law or use-of-force situations? And why are there only quotes from Rahmatullah Akbar and Rohit Mahajan? Where's Bob Smith's opinion? Sung Yoon's opinion? Do you think the times purposely chose middle-eastern names because the so-called "victim" is of middle-eastern descent? You betchya--it puts the racial slant on things and sells more papers. Meanwhile, some guys who were trying to do their jobs get torn apart. I know the media doesn't care about accurate fact-relating and prefers articles that will stir things up (entertainment), but boy, this article sure is a piece of crap.

[Your Mentor]

Have you ever noticed all the grown ups who find themselves downplaying and apologizing for things they did in their youth; particularly involving protests or matters of 'principle', in college? As I grow older, I find myself ignoring the ridiculous and immature behavior of ultra-liberal grad students. This racist kid was testing the boundries of society's 'rules' and, as usual, his effort to make a meaningless point will cost taxpayers millions in litigation. To what end? Sorry folks, but this is a time where we should all, regardless of race, be delighted to show ID when asked. A college library would be the perfect place for a terrorist act and colleges, sadly, are breeding grounds for all kinds of extremist ideas. Green planet extremists burn Hummer 2's and stage sit-ins. Islamic extremists would rather blow up the entire non-islamic world. The ACLU, of course, is quick to jump beside the racist behavior of minorities and turn the finger at the people who are just doing their jobs. If you believed the stuff they're shuvelling, everyone in LE is driven by a racist hatred for EVERYONE. The reality is that the vast majority of cops are just people who go to work, do what they're called upon to do and nothing more, and look forward to going home at night. The media, however, portrays us all as hypervigilant and overly aggressive. Listening to the audio of this video alone makes me question this kid's actions. Listen to how calmly the officers are giving this guy orders. That's going to play out in court. They sound calm and composed. He sounds like a flaming idiot.

[Mac]

...The ACLU, of course, is quick to jump beside the racist behavior of minorities and turn the finger at the people who are just doing their jobs. If you believed the stuff they're shuvelling, everyone in LE is driven by a racist hatred for EVERYONE. The reality is that the vast majority of cops are just people who go to work, do what they're called upon to do and nothing more, and look forward to going home at night. The media, however, portrays us all as hypervigilant and overly aggressive....
Well said, YM. I couldn't possibly agree more. The ACLU is basically a bunch of liberal anarchists. I commonly refer to them as the "A**holes, Criminals and Liars' Union". :badgrin: