View Full Version : Skid Pan!
marshallortiz
11-10-2006, 09:42 PM
Is skid pan really difficult? From some of the posts i have read many Cadets do not do very well.
Kevin
11-10-2006, 10:04 PM
What's a skid pan? I've heard of skid car and skid pad, but never skid pan. Is that something the CHP does for their EVOC course? ;)
FDandH
11-10-2006, 10:05 PM
Just listen to the EVOC instructors, it's all head and eyes. Piece 'O Cake!
FDandH
11-10-2006, 10:14 PM
Skid pan is this funny looking track:
http://www.generals96.com/skidpan.jpg
Basically it involves driving an old patrol vehicle, with slicks on the rear wheels, around the water soaked track while getting the car sideways, but not doing a 360. Lots of fun.
If you've never recovered from a slide, it can be a new experience. There is plenty of instruction in the classroom and behind the wheel, but it is true that some Cadets simply can not grasp (and apply) the concepts in the time allotted. Skid pan and high speed are considered the most difficult parts of the EVOC instruction. In addition to simply demonstrating the skills, the EVOC instructors are looking to see you are comfortable performing them.
Believe me, when you hit the road on your first rain day in a 5,000 pound CVPI with $50 tires, skid recovery comes into play immediately.
David
11-11-2006, 07:39 PM
Believe me, when you hit the road on your first rain day in a 5,000 pound CVPI with $50 tires, skid recovery comes into play immediately. Well, the typical curb weight for an aero body(1992-97) is 3,900lbs, and about 4,000lbs for a whale body.(1998+)
I guess 5,000 could be about right if you have all the equipment + a driver + a full tank of gas.
not5150
11-11-2006, 08:25 PM
Cage, shotgun rack, front computer mount, front light controls, flares, all the trunk crap, etc etc
DW's 5000 lbs could actually be low if you're talking about a two man unit.
FDandH
11-11-2006, 08:47 PM
And, if you are one of those officers with rolling luggage for a go-bag you will definately exceed 5k lbs.
CHPGuy
11-11-2006, 09:02 PM
And, if you are one of those officers with rolling luggage for a go-bag you will definately exceed 5k lbs.
Don't forget about the graveyard Explorer ride-along!
AyatollahGondola
11-11-2006, 10:32 PM
You know, I always wanted to try that skid pan...
Back around 35 or 40 years ago, I rode along with an instructor on the high speed track at the old meadowview academy. Not a bad tour for a teenager. But alas! the skid pan was out of commision that day and it really seemed more interesting than speed believe it or not.
I remember the instructor telling me that they used to make the cadets feel like fools by driving their cars effortlessly and flawlessly backwards while the others spun out, drifted and twirled trying to go forward.
HippieChip
11-12-2006, 05:00 AM
Is skid pan really difficult? From some of the posts i have read many Cadets do not do very well.
EVOC is intimidating for many of the cadets, just like anything you don't have much experience in, if any. When you get to that point and your nervous going in, try to relax (yeah right)! You really do have to sort of relax, because many people when they are really nervous lock up. Also if you relax (and this might sound funny, but...) you'll have a better "feel for car." In other words, it helps to understand how the car shifts (weight transfer), the feel of tires spinning, steering input (how much to turn or not turn the steeting wheel). Your instructor is there to work with you, they want to see you suceed! If you make a mistake, you are not alone....recover, get over it and move on. Skid pan was so much fun I wanted to keep going! It's a blast!!!! :biggrin:
Skid pan was so much fun I wanted to keep going! It's a blast!!!! :biggrin:
Yep, definitely a ton of fun! Like DW said, there are some who just can't grasp the essentials in the amount of time allotted for training. The biggest thing is to listen very carefully to the instructors - don't think or assume that you already know how to do it, because you don't. There are a lot of technical skills and concepts involved in high-performance driving.....I'd say that probably 95% of civilians who consider themselves "good drivers" grossly overestimate their skills, unless they've had some training somewhere. Don't go to EVOC thinking that you're already a good driver, because you'll quickly discover how wrong you are and how little you know.
AyatollahGondola
11-12-2006, 08:32 AM
The CHP should set up a booth for this at the next state fair,
I know it would take up a lot of room, but think of the educational value and the recruiting attraction
mremmaye
11-12-2006, 09:07 AM
The skidpan track looks fun!!! Hopefully I will get my chance at that soon. How long is the track?
WannaBeaChippie
11-12-2006, 10:06 AM
2.3 miles...and I think there are 2 skid recovery practice areas.
marshallortiz
11-12-2006, 10:09 AM
Thanks for all the input everyone!:biggrin:
Dipmo
11-12-2006, 10:15 AM
2.3 miles...and I think there are 2 skid recovery practice areas.
A little long on the distance...
Read up here:
http://www.spike-helmick.com/Driver-Training-/
WannaBeaChippie
11-12-2006, 10:18 AM
2.3 miles...and I think there are 2 skid recovery practice areas.
A little long on the distance...
Read up here:
http://www.spike-helmick.com/Driver-Training-/
Oh I'm taking what I got from the CHP Applicant study guide...
"The Emergency Vehicle Operations Course (EVOC) is famous throughout the world as
the finest law enforcement driver training program available. The facility consists of a
2.3-mile, high performance driving track, two skid recovery practice areas, and a
defensive driving complex. Additional driving facilities are provided for motorcycle
enforcement training." on page 1-4.
mremmaye
11-12-2006, 10:31 AM
2.3 miles...and I think there are 2 skid recovery practice areas.
A little long on the distance...
Read up here:
http://www.spike-helmick.com/Driver-Training-/
Thanks for the link! Lots of good info!
Scott96b10
11-12-2006, 02:35 PM
Towards the very end of the academy, i was able to go back out to the skid-pan with a few fellow classmates. I took my digital with me and got some pretty cool in car video while negotiating the track, and some further video of my classmates negotiating the s-turn. If someone could tell me how to post them on here (if its even possible), i will do so.
marshallortiz
11-12-2006, 03:47 PM
That would be pretty cool!
mremmaye
11-12-2006, 05:29 PM
I'd love to see those vids! I'm sure someone tech savvy will chime in.
Oh I'm taking what I got from the CHP Applicant study guide...
"The Emergency Vehicle Operations Course (EVOC) is famous throughout the world as
the finest law enforcement driver training program available. The facility consists of a
2.3-mile, high performance driving track, two skid recovery practice areas, and a
defensive driving complex. Additional driving facilities are provided for motorcycle
enforcement training." on page 1-4.
The 2.3 mile course is the high speed track. The skid pan is nowhere near 2.3 miles in length. Two completely different things.
CHPGuy
11-13-2006, 09:06 AM
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d18/CHPGuy/academy.jpg
the skid pan is the little guy in the middle.
uoplax13
11-13-2006, 12:55 PM
Would anyone say the skid pan is comprable to driving a rear wheel drive vehicle in the snow....with the 4wd disengaged?
countersteer
11-13-2006, 04:35 PM
The way I looked at the Academy is to not worry about things in the future. If you do that, you will really stress yourself out. When the time comes to start skidpan, then focus on that. Don't stress on things to come. They'll teach you everything you need to know. The biggest part of skid pan has already been mentioned, just listen to the instructors. Also remember that the car will want to correct itself on its own and do most the work after you input your countersteer...you'll see when you get there. No worries.
uoplax13
11-13-2006, 06:29 PM
The way I looked at the Academy is to not worry about things in the future. If you do that, you will really stress yourself out. When the time comes to start skidpan, then focus on that. Don't stress on things to come. They'll teach you everything you need to know. The biggest part of skid pan has already been mentioned, just listen to the instructors. Also remember that the car will want to correct itself on its own and do most the work after you input your countersteer...you'll see when you get there. No worries.
Not too stressed or looking for any spoilers....just having some fun in the fresh snow :smile:
Believe me, when you hit the road on your first rain day in a 5,000 pound CVPI with $50 tires, skid recovery comes into play immediately. Well, the typical curb weight for an aero body(1992-97) is 3,900lbs, and about 4,000lbs for a whale body.(1998+)
I guess 5,000 could be about right if you have all the equipment + a driver + a full tank of gas.
Last time I weighed one, which was several years ago, it was about 5,100 lbs loaded with me in the driver's seat. (I've gained some weight since, but not enough to make a marked difference. ;) ) Good news is that it was almost exactly 50/50 distribution.
Would anyone say the skid pan is comprable to driving a rear wheel drive vehicle in the snow....with the 4wd disengaged?
Yes, very much. In fact, RWD snow/ice driving is probably some of the best practice for skid pan.
jdmHboy
11-13-2006, 07:50 PM
Would taking a performance driving class (such as the ones offered at Thunderhill, Buttonwillow, Sears Point etc.) prior to academy be beneficial at all, or does CHP do things totally different?
countersteer
11-14-2006, 08:08 AM
Would taking a performance driving class (such as the ones offered at Thunderhill, Buttonwillow, Sears Point etc.) prior to academy be beneficial at all, or does CHP do things totally different?
I wouldn't even waste your money, man. You need to go into there knowing you don't know anything about driving. As you stated, the CHP has their own approach to everything. If you are not willing to do it their way, stand-by. I think a course like that would be more beneficial to you after you graduate and have worked the road for a while. That way you can really learn how to apply those advanced driving skills.
PapaBear
11-14-2006, 08:59 AM
High speed control and skid recovery techniques are fairly standard irrespective of where you learn them. Drift, push, slide, skid, spin, etc are all conditions that you will learn at any high performance driving school. Save your money and learn the Department's way. That way you will be onboard with all of your fellow officers. Believe me, when you learn and practice what you learn it will save your life....
Enjoy the experience and practice, practice, practice!
CHPGuy
11-14-2006, 09:36 AM
how would an officer, whom is really interested in EVOC driving, go about becoming an instuctor?
countersteer
11-14-2006, 09:49 AM
how would an officer, whom is really interested in EVOC driving, go about becoming an instuctor?
After you graduate the Academy, "IF YOU'RE SO FORTUNATE", you'll have to work the road for a couple years and then you just put in for the next open position on the EVOC staff. I'm not too sure on all the specifics, I know you have to prove you can drive, do an interview, etc. I'm sure other officers have more details. Either way, its not an easy thing to get into from what I understand.
WannaBeaChippie
11-14-2006, 02:48 PM
Oh I'm taking what I got from the CHP Applicant study guide...
"The Emergency Vehicle Operations Course (EVOC) is famous throughout the world as
the finest law enforcement driver training program available. The facility consists of a
2.3-mile, high performance driving track, two skid recovery practice areas, and a
defensive driving complex. Additional driving facilities are provided for motorcycle
enforcement training." on page 1-4.
The 2.3 mile course is the high speed track. The skid pan is nowhere near 2.3 miles in length. Two completely different things.Oh, okay...thanks for clearing that up for me.:smile:
Would taking a performance driving class (such as the ones offered at Thunderhill, Buttonwillow, Sears Point etc.) prior to academy be beneficial at all, or does CHP do things totally different?
I guess i'll be the only one and say YES!! If you take any performance driving school such as the ones you mentioned, it will help you trmendously. The characteristics of a car's performance is the same regardless of who is instructing it.
Those school are not cheap but if you can afford it, have fun!
G-Man
11-16-2006, 05:56 AM
I remember a couple of the retreads in my class who went out due to prior problems with EVOC had to take performance driving courses before they could re-enter the Academy.
Whether you want to spend all that money before knowing if you can do it already... you'll have to figure that one out on your own.
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