This is Sad

[SB 405]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Virginia sheriff covered up a scheme in which a dozen of his deputies sold seized guns and drugs to the public, a federal indictment alleges.

The indictment names Henry County Sheriff Harold Franklin Cassell, known locally as "Frank," and 17 others.

They were taken into custody on Thursday morning, the Drug Enforcement Administration said in a statement.

"It was disgraceful corruption," said U.S. Attorney John L. Brownlee. "These were drugs and guns that were seized as part of their law enforcement duties that were then stolen from the property room and put back out on the streets."

Brownlee added, "You have law enforcement (officers) risking their lives to take these guns off the streets and then a very few members of law enforcement putting them right back out there."

He acknowledged that the arrests would affect the department's ability to carry on day-to-day operations. Virginia state police are being sent to ensure safety, Brownlee said.

Among the schemes alleged in the indictment:


The theft of drugs and firearms in the custody of the sheriff's department


Distribution of cocaine, marijuana and a date rape drug


Money laundering


Obstruction of justice

The DEA said 13 of the 18 charged are either current or former employees of the Henry County Sheriff's Office, located in southern Virginia's Piedmont region.

Officials allege Cassell was advised by authorities of drug transactions going on in his department but took no action. Authorities also allege the sheriff covered up several illegal activities by lying to federal investigators.

Cassell was elected sheriff in 1992. The department employs 122 people, 96 of them as sworn law enforcement officers.

"Today's indictment serves as a clear reminder that no one -- not even a senior member of law enforcement -- is above the law," Brownlee said.

[PapaBear]

Another black mark against the profession. Greed, graft and corruption are the greatest downfalls of law enforcement and public service. Hopefully, their prosecution will be swift and gain very little momemtum in the nation.

Tsk, tsk, tsk! If true, they deserve what punishment they are given.

Tom

[Mac]

Tsk, tsk, tsk! If true, they deserve what punishment they are given.
My thoughts exactly. Cops who become criminals give the rest of us a big black eye. I commonly refer to it as "taking a sh*t on our badges". If it's true, I hope they all receive the most severe punishment possible.

[SB 405]

Guns going back on the streets is what bothers me the most.

[chp36]

Tsk, tsk, tsk! If true, they deserve what punishment they are given.
My thoughts exactly. Cops who become criminals give the rest of us a big black eye. I commonly refer to it as "taking a sh*t on our badges". If it's true, I hope they all receive the most severe punishment possible.

Not only a black eye, but how could you trust a criminal to have your back on the road. It is a scary thought.

[Flying Pig]

The way I see it.....those turds were never cops. However, it does indeed give cops a black eye. But in the end, they will get whats coming to them.

[kaos455]

Put them in gen. pop. in the prison they are committed to.

[AyatollahGondola]

Put them in gen. pop. in the prison they are committed to.

Naw. That would just increase the general pops education about LEO's. Better to seclude them. really secluded. The County sheriff used to auction the guns here, but as soon as that got exposed by the media, it went down in flames.
Maybe we could write some law that forced the distributor or retailer to buy them back at full price plus tax if they were used in a crime.:lol:
Proceeds to go towards law enforcement.

[Welpe]

Maybe we could write some law that forced the distributor or retailer to buy them back at full price plus tax if they were used in a crime.:lol:

Why would we punish a retailer for selling a gun legally?

[AyatollahGondola]

Maybe we could write some law that forced the distributor or retailer to buy them back at full price plus tax if they were used in a crime.:lol:

Why would we punish a retailer for selling a gun legally?

this requires a thorough exam of responsibilities. To put this in perspective, does it not arouse your suspicions of motive when car dealers and manufacturers build souped up sleek looking rockets which seemingly have a sole purpose of speeding, and then market that ability to the general public?

[David]

this requires a thorough exam of responsibilities. To put this in perspective, does it not arouse your suspicions of motive when car dealers and manufacturers build souped up sleek looking rockets which seemingly have a sole purpose of speeding, and then market that ability to the general public? So... what's your point?

You think everyone should be required be law to drive mediorce perfroming, lame looking, so-so handling cars? :biggrin:shock:ubt: What about those of us who see cars as a things of beauty, a works of art, and an inspiring manifestation of mechanical prowess and creativity?

[David]

Maybe we could write some law that forced the distributor or retailer to buy them back at full price plus tax if they were used in a crime.:lol:
Proceeds to go towards law enforcement. Suppose Future Ford here in Roseville sells Mr. Smith a Taurus. A few months later, Mr. Smith gets into a road rage incident with Mr. Jones, so he comits vehicular homicide with the Taurus and runs over Mr. Jones killing him.



Would it really be just to punish Future Ford?

[Slim]

[quote=Welpe][quote=AyatollahGondola]


This requires a thorough exam of responsibilities. To put this in perspective, does it not arouse your suspicions of motive when car dealers and manufacturers build souped up sleek looking rockets which seemingly have a sole purpose of speeding, and then market that ability to the general public?

I have yet to take a crash where someone driving one of these expensive rockets have crashed because of a lack of ability to drive or has been out on a deserted road driving fast and crash. People who spend the time and money to buy these vehicles do it for more than the ability to go 0-60 in less than 5 seconds. They do it for status, the love of a car, the memories of the youth they had etc. To punish a manufacture for the illegal use of it's product denies the individual the responsibility he should be held accountable for. Improper finger pointing has been getting more popular in the last ten years when it comes to firearms and smoking. Liberal cities, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago and some others, have sued without success in most cases. These cities want to stand up and say manufactures make faulty product or are negligent. To blame the factory producing these firearms is ridiculous.

I have a hard time swallowing these verdicts that have came down against the tobacco companies in the last 15 years or so. How long have the warnings been on cigarette boxes? How often is it advertised how dangerous smoking is to you in the media? Since I can remember I have heard how smoking is bad for you. I guess if you can't read, can't see, don't listen and have no contact with the outside world you might have a case their product damaged you and it was their fault. But thats not the case. Do tobacco companies make a dangerous, deadly product? Damn right they do. Is it addictive? Absolutely. Back in the day were they guilty of some shady marketing? Yep. But are they responsible for the ignorance people have towards the subject. Absolutely not. It is the individual's responsibility to make sure they drive their car carefully, keep their firearm in a safe protected location and use it properly and make their own decision if they want to smoke. Hold the individual accountable for their actions.

[Mac]

I have yet to take a crash where someone driving one of these expensive rockets have crashed because of a lack of ability to drive or has been out on a deserted road driving fast and crash...
I agree with your post in principle....but just as a point of interest, I've taken a few crashes like the above. The most recent one that comes to mind was a brand-new all carbon-fiber bodied Lamborghini overturned into a ditch and totally destroyed? The driver took his friend's 16-year old daughter out for a "test ride" and got a little carried away as he demonstrated his Lambo's cornering prowess on a two-lane county road.

In a related vein, I think a lot of us have taken our share of crashes involving squids on "crotch rockets" who, ahhhhhh, weren't quite as skilled as they thought they were. I'm all for personal responsibility, but I think the concept of mass-marketing motorcycles that are easily capable of 160-180 mph top speeds is ludicrous. At least the price of an extreme high-end car (Lambo, Ferrari, etc.) precludes the average bonehead from owning one.....however, just about anybody can plunk down (or finance) 10 big ones for a motorcycle which was originally designed for extreme high-speed competition on closed tracks by experienced/professional riders. I don't like chasing them, and I don't like cleaning up the goo when they wad it up. Messy.

[David]

I know what you mean about stupid kids on crotch rockets. They can be scary, that's for sure. :confused:

You know, I probably wouldn't trust most guys my age with one.

[Slim]

I had one when I was 19 and it scared the crap out of me so I sold it. It wasn't fun fast it was scary fast.

[bcjack]

I rode 50,000 miles on a semi-crotch rocket and never crashed. I look back now (25 years ago) and am amazed I survived. I did a lot of REALLY dumb things, like Santa Maria to Bakersfield (130 miles) in 1 hour and 22 minutes. Every once in awhile I get the urge to get another bike....I rode a Ducati 900 recently and it scared the crap out of me....nearly drove right out from under me. If I get another bike, it will be a BMW like the CHP and local LE uses. Fast, but smooth and a "Cruiser".

[David]

valleydre: I'm glad that you didn't wrap yourself around a tree riding like moron. :cool:

bcjack: I believe what you want is a BMW R1200RT.

[Slim]

It was close a few times. I wasn't very experienced and it was a Ninja 900. I have since learned to enjoy a closed cockpit (see avatar) and a nice cigar for my thrill instead of dodging bugs in fear of knocking me off the bike.

[AyatollahGondola]

Perhaps I wasn't clear,

It is the marketing after the manufacturing that is the real offender. however the manufacturers are usually behind that in the long run. In a perfect world, someone buying a semi automatic weapon without the background to use it, only shoots him or herself. But that is not always the case, as is the same with a 23 year old buying a SUV and driving it like a ferrari. The predictable rollover takes the life of a passenger or an oncoming cyclist in the real world. Is there personal responsability required? Absolutely.
Are the tangent victims of the careless perpetrators given the opportunity for prevention?
Yes, but only via legislation to ward off careless behavior. It's either that or blame law enforcement for not halting it in time. What other preventative medicine could victims take?
I don't want to see guns or hot rods outlawed. What I'd like to see is restraint in advertising. I'm not naive enough to believe that any profit driven corporation would voluntarily abandon the pursuit of eye catching, crowd pleasing, and catchy lyric singing ads that propel sales past their competition; so expenses or costs of goods sold is the only way I can think of. They don't have to be held responsible because they built it. But they should be held to a standard for advertising it. And if there was a subliminal and repetitious advertisement that prompted a senseless fool to buy a high powered viper and drive it along the beach so the salt water sprayed up like a rooster tail,... thems that taught him should foot the bill for the grieving parents of that fools girlfriend whose fingernails were driven into the upholstery in a last ditch attempt to hold on just prior to her ejection. I don't know what would go through her mind in a scenario like that, but what should have gone through there is, "Just where did he get that idea?"
A few 8 figure judgements later and they will be advertising more responsibly, but still in business if they are committed to thier industry. Now I was out of line with the gun post, but they have some guilt in that regard as well, although somewhat less in a direct sense. The cigarette companies? C'mon, don't try to con me on that one. They made millions glamorizing smokers when they knew thier product was a real health destroyer. And fearful of losing thier grip on an already growing market, they added boosters into the mix to ensure a loyal clientele in the future. They deserve to get hammered.

[ResQ]

so what you're saying is more of a communistic approach to captialism with a dash of socialism?? Hmmm...

How 'bout hammer the dog poop out of the maroon that made the bad decision...How about acting responsibly in a free society? How about middle america ceases to point "the finger" and blame someone else...

I am inundated with garbage all day long from TV...Radio...Billboards...Magazines....yet somehow I continue to make sound decisions IN SPITE of advertisement...How does that happen? Because I have a B-R-A-I-N.

You know who deserves to get hammered?...the idiots that LISTEN. The idiots that can't think on their own and rely on someone else to make decisions for them. ...then try and blame someone else for their bad decision. Baaah-Baaaah-Baaaah....sheep! This country was not founded nor constructed by SHEEP...it was by forward thinking responsible people who learned from their mistakes.

So, Ayatollah...consider this while you have a tasty toasted Asbestos Sandwich (they're delicisous...trust me...I eat 73 a day (for my health of course) with mustard...really sets it off)...TRY ONE...TRY ONE...TRY ONE. The problem is not with manufacturers...OR with marketers...OR with people who buy the product...the PROBLEM is with those that do not take personal responsibility for their actions. PERIOD.

Next you're going to want to hold GOD responsible for creating calories and fat people everywhere will want a settlement!!!

Just out of curiosity...who do you work for? what is YOUR specialty? litigation?

p.s. I like your "idea" although I quite obviously disagree with it...it is intriguing.

[CHPwannaBE]

Valleydre check your PM.

[Tom]

This is an interesting topic. I can see both sides of this. But, I like to look at the "180 mph motorcycle" kinda like alcohol. Both legal...both available...too much can hurt you..WE ALL KNOW this and some of us just don't heed the warnings.

Personal responsibility, in this day and age, has left us being replaced by the Lawyer. You all know the guy...he'e the one willing to take ANY case no matter how absurd - Coffee too hot at fast-food restaurant, People are fat because of fast-food, I just ate a finger in chili, OJ is not guilty.................yes....common sense has been replaced by the latest scheister who passed the BAR exam--------coming soon to your town!

DISCLAIMER - NOT ALL LAWYERS ARE BEING STEREOTYPED IN THIS MESSAGE

THIS MESSAGE CONTAINS PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS AND OPINIONS OF THE AUTHOR. IT DOES NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS, NOR REPRESENT AN
OFFICIAL POSITION, OF THE CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL. FURTHER, THE CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL DOES NOT ENDORSE OR APPROVE
OF THE CONTENT OF, NOR IS IT IN ANY MANNER AFFILIATED WITH OR RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONTENT OF THIS WEB SITE.:cool:

[Flying Pig]

Its a generality, but Im assuming the majority of those Deputies entered law enforcement with good intentions. It would have taken one guy to do the right thing when it started. You have to wonder how many of the ones arrested are sitting in a jail cell wishing they would have done just that.

[David]

Personal responsibility, in this day and age, has left us being replaced by the Lawyer. You all know the guy...he'e the one willing to take ANY case no matter how absurd Stephen Yagman comes to mind.

[Chippysgt]

Guy goes to the cemetery for the services for a local lawyer. His buddy looks at the grave and says "Here lies a lawyer and an honest man". He looks at his buddy and says "How did they get two bodies in the grave????"

THIS DOES NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF THE CHP and all that other stuff that Tom said......................:cool:

[Flying Pig]

Ahh yes...Stephen.....He got his BAR card suspended for a year not to long ago..... hes back in business. Oh yeah...he sued the United States on behalf of the Guantanimo Terrorist Detainees.

[SweetTaterPie]

Guy goes to the cemetery for the services for a local lawyer. His buddy looks at the grave and reads "Here lies a lawyer and an honest man". He looks at his buddy and says "How did they get two bodies in the grave????"

THIS DOES NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF THE CHP and all that other stuff that Tom said......................:cool:

Belly-laugh!!!

[David]

Oh yeah...he sued the United States on behalf of the Guantanimo Terrorist Detainees. I didn't know that, but it doesn't really surprise me. :rolleyes:

[AyatollahGondola]

How 'bout hammer the dog poop out of the maroon that made the bad decision...How about acting responsibly in a free society? How about middle america ceases to point "the finger" and blame someone else...

I am inundated with garbage all day long from TV...Radio...Billboards...Magazines....yet somehow I continue to make sound decisions IN SPITE of advertisement...How does that happen? Because I have a B-R-A-I-N.
We all have a brain. What you have is an E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N. And that is a direct result of someone legislating learning materials for you before you were even born. Advertisement is a form of education, my boy. The same process that hammered basic addition and phonics into your head can also be used to to teach you that speeding around the city in one of thier pretty cars will have members of the opposite sex fawning and swooning for even the pimplyest faced high school senior.
I might point out that precedent has already been set for this. When was the last time you saw the marlboro man in between beer commercials? And speaking of beer, when was the last time you saw a Jack Daniels commercial on TV? The reason was, those companies were educating some of the wrong people. Not only the ones you might call B-R-A-I-N-L-E-S-S, but also the impressionable, read teachable, young minds that will be tomorrows drivers and gun owners. There's also a reason we probably don't see explosives advertisement on the tube also. I'm sure those of you that have B-R-A-I-N-S could handle your beer, tobacco, and TNT, but there are those of us among the viewing...uh, learning citizenry, that might be willing to experiment a little having seen one ad.

and by the way, victims have to blame someone else. For them it becomes a decision on which "someone else" to point to. It isn't a huge jump for the more reasonable ones to question why the company that marketed 10,000 vipers in an area that only had 1,000 buyers with B-R-A-I-N-S was the same one that sold one of them to the 16 year old driver that lost control of it and took the life of the kids girlfriend.

And no, I'm far, far from a lawyer.

[ResQ]

...and the liberal left speaketh...

I almost reacted when you adressed me as "my boy" but then immediately got over it as I read on (understanding that you were obivously biased).

Sufficient retort (albeit repulsive).

[ResQ]

:rolleyes:

[AyatollahGondola]

Hardly liberal and definately not a leftist,

In fact, I beat up on leftists as a hobby. Well, actually it has become more than a hobby lately. the "my boy" thing was not meant as some insult or demeaning. just didn't know anyone well enough to use a name. My boy, son, partner, bro,...all just terms of casual reference.

[ResQ]

so then...what is it that you do?

[AyatollahGondola]

Uh....I'm one of those immigrant bashing, racist, hate mongers, that dares to oppose the liberal leftists who believe that there should be open borders between here and chile, and that anyone that comes from mexico should be granted sainthood, a drivers license, and the right to solicit a job with a hundred of his countrymen at ARCO stations anywhere in the US.
Off topic by the way...

[TahoeTex]

Uh....I'm one of those immigrant bashing, racist, hate mongers, that dares to oppose the liberal leftists who believe that there should be open borders between here and chile, and that anyone that comes from mexico should be granted sainthood, a drivers license, and the right to solicit a job with a hundred of his countrymen at ARCO stations anywhere in the US.
Off topic by the way...

All I can say is WOW AG - that's quite a mouth full. Can't say I agree with you on all of your points, but God love ya for the courage to post them and challenge people to think about the issues.

My 2-cents for the conversation - having served the last 4 1/2 yrs in the military, I have seen every type of person described in this post, from the impressionable young kid to wise person and everything in-between. No matter the education level, age, or rank, each person made the decision they made for their own reason, regardless whether they were influenced by a commercial, a friend, etc. I firmly believe people are to be held accountable for their own actions - period. I understand the need for some to blame someone or some agency/company/industry for the wrongdoing, but in the end, it comes down to personal responsibility. We are judged for all of eternity for the decisions we make - good or bad - and no other factors will be considered.

Thanks for listening - I'm 10-10 - out here

[chp36]

Hardly liberal and definately not a leftist,

In fact, I beat up on leftists as a hobby. Well, actually it has become more than a hobby lately.

Takinig beat up as literal, it sounds like something people like us take people like you to jail for.:sad: Sounds like you need to take your bad attitude somewhere else, a place where people care to hear it.

[Tom]

Hey AG,

These people that you describe that are so "impressioned" by TV..advertisement..media and etc......I ask you this..."Where are there parents or guardians?" I watched just about as much TV as I could when I was a kid and I don't have the urge to fly the starship enterprise!

You gotta lay blame where blame is due....its with the individual at a FAMILY level!

[AyatollahGondola]

Yes it begins at the family level,

Mostly anyway. But as a parent, it becomes more than a full time job countering every little bit of propaganda...read advertisement...that flows from the well financed corporations like a river at flood stage. Two parent households are struggling with it; Single parents are overwhelmed. The bottom line is that with families losing more and more options in teaching thier kids, and the corporations garnering more and more of the American economy to use in advertisement, confused kids will be the result; Millions of them,... with the ability to be held accountable for thier actions. That bodes well for the prison industry, and it looks good for LEO overtime options, but not for American culture.
The way I see it, if we do not spend the money on advertisement to counter what the corporations are drilling into our, and our childrens minds, then we better limit thier ability to do so. I'd rather we did the former obviously due to first amendment and a free society protections, but that will require "a new progam" administered by bureaucrats which is not usually productive and too easily influenced by the corporate lobbyists, so that leaves us with the latter. We do nothing and we lose.

And I only meant the beating up leftists as a wisecrack. Actually we are always in defensive mode during our events. Usually, the leftists who are carrying anarchists, che, communist, and other leftist flags are the ones who are attacking, spitting, tossing objects at us and the like. I referred to my beating up on them in cynical fashion only, mainly due to the fact they see us as "beating up" on the illegal aliens, and when they come to "protect" them, we are then "beating up" on them due to proximity. I'll point out that these are usually college students and late term high schooler's that have been indoctrinated,...er...taught to hate anyone with a message that they do not approve of, and that free speech is only permissable when it is an officially sanctioned one by the school of thier attendance

[David]

It's like Ron White says, you can't fix stupid.

There are plenty of highly educated kids who drive recklessly and end up wrapping themselves around a tree at some insane speed.

No amount of education can make a person have common sense. It just doesn't work that way.

[SweetTaterPie]

It's like Ron White says, you can't fix stupid.

There are plenty of highly educated kids who drive recklessly and end up wrapping themselves around a tree at some insane speed.

No amount of education can make a person have common sense. It just doesn't work that way.

Amen David! You cannot legislate smarts and self-discipline. Also, AG, welcome to a representative republic, with a democratic electoral process. Abolish the Constitution and you may have a shot at the kind of fix you describe, though I'm convinced it would do nothing but make legal code books fatter.

[AyatollahGondola]

I think we have a disconnect here,

When I refer to education it is more like indoctrination. And we did not have to suspend the constitution to keep cigarette and hard liquor commercials off the air. Likewise to force people to wear seatbelts. You see? the constitution gets bent a little bit here and there, and there isn't a revolt or tea party. Now I'd like to see a firm adhereance to the constitution personally, however if the power structure that governs the masses only allows a little flexiblity where profits are concerned, then it isn't as sacred as one would like to believe.
Highly educated kids wrapping thier cars around poles is exactly where I'm pointing this at. It is the barrage of exposure kids and some adults get to an improper message that ends up making it seem ok. It is after all, coming from a cornerstone of American business like ford, chrysler, etc.
It must be ok to drive it that way or they wouldn't build it or show it like that?

I will take exception to one comment:
I hope we can fix stupid one day. I know apathy or resignment won't do that though.

I have been hijacking this poor poster's thread long enough so I'm going to quit here. Just like to say that corporate advertising departments will spend whatever it takes to learn what makes us buy their products. even to the point that theytried the flash messaging and subliminal messages within thier ads. What threshold would you consider too far for them to go in the future?

[David]

You see? Not at all. :biggrin:shock:ubt:

[SweetTaterPie]

I think we have a disconnect here,

When I refer to education it is more like indoctrination. And we did not have to suspend the constitution to keep cigarette and hard liquor commercials off the air. Likewise to force people to wear seatbelts. You see? the constitution gets bent a little bit here and there, and there isn't a revolt or tea party. Now I'd like to see a firm adhereance to the constitution personally, however if the power structure that governs the masses only allows a little flexiblity where profits are concerned, then it isn't as sacred as one would like to believe.
Highly educated kids wrapping thier cars around poles is exactly where I'm pointing this at. It is the barrage of exposure kids and some adults get to an improper message that ends up making it seem ok. It is after all, coming from a cornerstone of American business like ford, chrysler, etc.
It must be ok to drive it that way or they wouldn't build it or show it like that?

I will take exception to one comment:
I hope we can fix stupid one day. I know apathy or resignment won't do that though.

I have been hijacking this poor poster's thread long enough so I'm going to quit here. Just like to say that corporate advertising departments will spend whatever it takes to learn what makes us buy their products. even to the point that theytried the flash messaging and subliminal messages within thier ads. What threshold would you consider too far for them to go in the future?

The disconnect, and no offense AG, is the common misconception of "right" and "privilege." A driver's license is a privilege granted to individual members of society who've managed to meet basic qualifying standards. Those members retain that privilege until they no longer meet the qualifying standards: mental or physical infirmity; habitual violation of traffic law; drug/alcohol dependency/abuse problems, et cetera. The privilege of driving is granted by California citizens, via the legislature, to California citizens, provided the standards are met and maintained. Failure to wear a seat belt, while not too bright, does not infringe on the Constitutional rights of another driver, though it is a violation of California Vehicle Code statute. Speeding, unsafely turning or stopping, failing to yield the right-of-way, following too closely, driving impaired, all are violations that can and do have a direct and immediate impact on other motorists' Constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness--the basics. I'm discussing adults, not children too young to responsibly decide or act on their own. IMO adult seat belt law is a Constitutional "bending" designed to minimize state expenditure for uninsured motorists. Granted, wearing a seat belt may save your life in the event of a traffic collision; but, the statute itself does not effect safe operation of a motor vehicle one way or another. Rather, it deals entirely with the point of impact to the point of rest, and with mitigating the medical aftermath. My fear is the terrarium effect, where we become legislated into a life under glass, where there are no longer acceptable and legal risks to living, where we all wear gray suits and eat Soylent Green. We all have to live with laws that concern privilege, if we desire to maintain the privilege; but any law that concerns a citizen's "rights" has no place dancing along the edge of Constitutional infringement. When law becomes too onerous, curtailing the ordinary rights of American citizens, "bending" the Constitution hangs in my craw. If you want a solution to the dangerous driving and catastrophic end-game of youthful drivers, raise the minimum age to 21, as required for consumption of alcoholic beverages. If you feel the government is too soft on manufacturers, punish parents who do little or nothing to regulate the behavior of their children, or the idiotic adults who succumb to their base desires and act stupidly. The Constitution is not destroyed through giant blows of an axe, it is through the gradual whittling-away, "bending," of our protected individuality. IMO and MOO.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[AyatollahGondola]

OK, ok...

Like I said I don't wanna steal this posters thread anymore. I am concerned that the minds of our next generations may be protected to death by the first amendment.
Hope to meet you guys out there some day. and hopefully not as a traffic casulty. I'd like it to be under more pleasurable circumstances like one of our rallies or protests where you are called in with riot gear to protect the leftists and anarchists while they attack us.:biggrin:

now what was this topic again anyway?
Oh yeah, dirty cops taking bribes...something like that......
god! no wonder you didn't mind changing the subject;)

[ResQ]

no I insist...hijack away...and the reason I suggest this is because you are blind...I (we) can see your point...but you fail to see our point...which is simply...we live in a CAPITALISTIC DEMOCRATIC society....

if you have enough money you can attempt to indoctrinate anyone you choose. That is 1st ammendment stuff...and NOONE should be prevented from voicing their opinion...or their attempt to make you another sheep. When you talk about education...it comes back to reponsible people teaching their children and themselves (through trial and error if necessary) what and when to listen to the message. Censorship like you speak of is completely un-american. You continually fail to accept that your principals are disorderly. The "order" in this society is simply say what you want and when you want to (unless is causes a riot, etc). So censoring advertising is hobbling the small business who may be selling something good. Just because they have more money and more ability does not make them responsible. Just think...if we went with your plan and EVERY american was on track with you...what would society look like? small voices? more or less responsibility? more or less free speech? I can't find any medium in your arguement...

this is like advertisment jihad.

keep 'splainin' AG...you got MY ear.

[AyatollahGondola]

No,...not here,

Start another thread and I'll beat this rug with anyone; but i don't want to earn a rep here for causing thread closures due to hijacking. I'm just a newbie.
You know, I'm wondering what happened to the guns that were sold in the original post here. were they seized or hunted for?

[Tom]

but i don't want to earn a rep here.....

Is this sarcasm?

[AyatollahGondola]

No..not at all

[SweetTaterPie]

OK, ok...

Like I said I don't wanna steal this posters thread anymore. I am concerned that the minds of our next generations may be protected to death by the first amendment.
Hope to meet you guys out there some day. and hopefully not as a traffic casulty. I'd like it to be under more pleasurable circumstances like one of our rallies or protests where you are called in with riot gear to protect the leftists and anarchists while they attack us.:biggrin:

now what was this topic again anyway?
Oh yeah, dirty cops taking bribes...something like that......
god! no wonder you didn't mind changing the subject;)

Changing the subject? Not a chance. Just responding to innuendo and unsubtle accusation. If you feel the thread should angle back toward discussing police corruption, hey, head it that way. Tossing innuendo about doesn't prove anything to anybody, nor does maligning LE in general. If you have some personal information regarding police corruption, may I suggest you contact the appropriate investigative body having jurisdiction over the LE agency/officer(s) in question. A word of free advice: allowing vitriolic personal feelings toward police to leak into your writing is not a positive. BTW, I would protect you just the same as any other American citizen, regardless the subject of your protest.

[AyatollahGondola]

I was just trying to return the thread to its rightful owner,

And maybe the absence of sound has altered my intended jovial attempt at doing so to the point of misrepresentation, but I'll say it was not any more meant at innuendo than that of the original post here. And corruption happens here and there. I've seen some here and there. I like to aim my efforts at those at the top who would foster that attitude rather than a few million who might follow that lead. I do not subscribe to any sort of broad brush where law enforcement is concerned. Well, maybe the donut one....

[SB 405]

Since I'm the "rightful owner".....maybe it's time to shut it down dw?

[chp36]

Since I'm the "rightful owner".....maybe it's time to shut it down dw?

I don't see a reason to lock a good thread. I am thinking more along the lines of, if you ignore a problem long enough it will eventually go away!!!!!!!!:badgrin:

[AyatollahGondola]

Guns going back on the streets is what bothers me the most.

You know, I did ask a legit question in order to try to get back on topic. Does anyone know whether any attempt was made at recovery of any of the weapons?
And SB405,
are you asking that question because they may have been sold without documentation, or that any weapons confiscated should be destroyed? I'm just not clear on what you meant by "the streets".

[WannaBeaChippie]

Guns going back on the streets is what bothers me the most.

You know, I did ask a legit question in order to try to get back on topic. Does anyone know whether any attempt was made at recovery of any of the weapons?
And SB405,
are you asking that question because they may have been sold without documentation, or that any weapons confiscated should be destroyed? I'm just not clear on what you meant by "the streets".I'm sure and this is just assuming that there will be a serious attempt to bring the weapons back, and if and when they are found they will probably be turned over to federal authorities so they can be destroyed. The weapons were once seized so they probably are marked, but realistically more than half of the weapons have probably been smuggled to different states by now and sold on the black market an will probably be found in another case somewhere else if they ever get used again or they turn up in another crime. As far as the terms the "streets" since the weapons aren't probably going to be sold at you local gun and tackle shop...they will probably be sold out of the back of a car on "the street" or smuggled to a warehouse on "the streets" or under someones matress in their home. Either way I'm sure the police will make and attempt to find the weapons.

I'm sure right now a tactical law enforcement team is setting up an undercover operation to go in and find out where they went, and don't forget about the federal agents sent in to make sure the operation is going smoothly...go figure...:biggrin:shock:ubt:

[SB 405]

Guns going back on the streets is what bothers me the most.

You know, I did ask a legit question in order to try to get back on topic. Does anyone know whether any attempt was made at recovery of any of the weapons?
And SB405,
are you asking that question because they may have been sold without documentation, or that any weapons confiscated should be destroyed? I'm just not clear on what you meant by "the streets".

That was a comment,not a question. I think WannaBe covered the rest of what I ment pretty well.

[AyatollahGondola]

Yeah, I see that now. I wasn't too clear on whether they sold them to criminals or not, but assuming now that was the case since there were also drugs sold too. I guess it would make it worse from a law enforcement officers perspective if guns were sold to the same types who would buy illegal drugs. I was hoping to hear that they sold the drugs to one type of customer and the guns to another, thereby at least restoring a smidgen of hope that they had some scruples in regards to thier fellow officers. Not that selling drugs is not reprehensible mind you, but you'd think that they might have thought that one of those guns might get used on themselves in the future also.

[WannaBeaChippie]

Yeah, I see that now. I wasn't too clear on whether they sold them to criminals or not, but assuming now that was the case since there were also drugs sold too. I guess it would make it worse from a law enforcement officers perspective if guns were sold to the same types who would buy illegal drugs. I was hoping to hear that they sold the drugs to one type of customer and the guns to another, thereby at least restoring a smidgen of hope that they had some scruples in regards to thier fellow officers. Not that selling drugs is not reprehensible mind you, but you'd think that they might have thought that one of those guns might get used on themselves in the future also.Well, in this case the ex-cops probably used the drugs and weapons to make it seem like they were doing a bust, and then agreed to a re-sale with the criminals to make extra money on the side. I'm sure they just didn't know about the undercover cop watching them, they wrote their own check and it bounced.

[AyatollahGondola]

I see.

[AyatollahGondola]

I know this is an old topic, but there was an article in the sacramento bee that kind of touches on what I was arguing about earlier in the thread.

http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/109659.html

The call to un-glorify street racing runs parallel to un-glorifying careless use and mis-use of guns. Now I don't want to cut the life out of the first amendment at all. But before some liberal hack of a lawmaker ends up doing it for "us", maybe we should define the limits of free speech and beat them to the draw. You all must know by now that we lose our rights, not all at once, but rather a chip at a time. Calling the chips might very well be the best control we can still excercise over our laws. And aiming that control at the major offenders might stave off a really invasive effort by lawmakers when some panic starts to grip society over another series of events like this one or even more loss of liberties due to a terrorist type attack that has spawned the likes of Real ID.
I know I promised not to hijack this thread, but it seems to have been neglected anyway.

[dw]

You guys are giving me a headache. :rolleyes:

[AyatollahGondola]

Sorry DW,

I'll buy the excedrin with your permission. But doesn't the CHP get behind legislation that affects driving all the time? Why would it be any different in a case such as this?