November Academy...who's goin?

[Your Mentor]

Let me clarify my statements about questioning rules and practices at the Academy. I agree with dw that you can go crazy trying to understand why certain things are done certain ways on this Department, let alone the Academy. Having both attended the Academy and many years later taught there, I can say that there are reasons behind the way things are done and why they change from time to time. When I went through (I can already feel the eyes rolling :rolleyes: ) so much was different from when I taught there. Many of the changes in rules result from lawsuits by defunct cadets. Some are from changes in employment law. For instance, I didn't make overtime when I attended and was not compensated for weekend training. That has changed entirely. Cadets get small overtime checks from time to time and earn CTO to burn between graduation and their first reporting date. My generation never thought to ask why but that social denominator has changed markedly. I think it is a social condition because I question things at every chance now. In CTC V-88, we never thought to ask why. We just wanted to know what's next. We had our favorite staff members who would take the time to explain and motivate us and then we had the staff members who told us to do the most idiotic things for no apparent reason. But in the end, it will ALL prepare you for the road. When you're out with some violator who you'd swear is schizophrenic, you'll totally understand. I often found myself trying to explain things to cadets who just needed, desperately, to know the 'why' of something. What I did NOT do is disparage other instructors or staff members for their odd rules or practices. Accepting change is part of our job. Every traffic stop is a new set of circumstances to consider.

Here's one example you may or may not encounter. Former students on this forum should remember this. I always made cadets write arrest reports, tickets, and CHP 180s in pencil. The staff office, and every other instructor for that matter, made cadets use pen. My colleagues used the older practice of making cadets using pen and then prohibiting any mistakes. This makes cadets redo assignments over and over and over. I was more concerned with the learning process and I wanted cadets to leave remembering a policy which some field officers don't even know; that you can write your tickets in pencil. Why would anyone want to do so? I worked in an area of extremes. When it's 125 degrees out and the ink is getting all over your uniform, a pencil is unaffected. When it's 12 degrees below zero and the ink won't flow unless you stick your pen in the heater vent, the pencil remains unaffected. Plus, with pencil, you CAN use an eraser. I took a lot of flak over my pencil policy but the classroom is a sacred domain and eventually other instructors learned to respect what I was trying to accomplish, not just with the pencil policy. Inveribly, in every class, a cadet would ask why they had to use a pen for memos for staff office. What could I say. That wasn't my rule. And each instructor is encouraged to establish their own rules as long as they don't step outside the SOP (Academy SOP, not the cadet SOP). This actually promotes an attention to detail, one of the most important police skills there is.

You have to remember that you will be dealing with an enormous collection of egos, some justifiably huge, some not. Whatever the case, you will be learning from some of the best talent on the Department. There will be those who aren't there because of talent but I don't know very many of the staff members there now. I do know that during every regime at the Academy there are mentors and there are those with egos running amok. Not many in between. Teaching, sadly, isn't just about talent and knowledge. It's all about the recipient; the student. Hence, conveying one's knowledge is the crux and lost on some who are tasked with doing so.

I do know that questioning instruction or rules will only yield the immediate wrath of the staff. And don't underestimate the staff. They are sharp people and are a squad. If you complain about something to one instructor or staff member that complaint will be known by every other staff member in a matter of hours. You'll see them dining together every day so remember that. The instructor who passes your complaints on may not have done so maliciously, but other instructors may react without that instructor knowing. I made it a point of keeping anything shared in the classroom just that: in the classroom.

[ResQ]

I feel a last minute, short-notice offer coming on...

Anyone have confirmation?

If so...what kind of goodies have you acquired so far? Boots, electric razor, Mp3

Any rumors going around that would entertain our "elders" in here?

[Nellie]

I am going. I have so far purchased a fresh pack of underwear, two packs of white socks, and some toiletries. I am going to do some serious shopping tomorrow. I also went to Prudential Overall Supply and they had me try on stuff. They then faxed my measurements to their Sacramento office.

[dw]

No MP3 players allowed...

This has a list of things to bring. Don't go crazy and bring a bunch of stuff, especially not on the first day. http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/academycadet.html

[Hammer]

I am also going in November. I confirmed with the hiring unit today.

[ResQ]

DW, What is the rationale for the Mp3 rule? I have talked to folks who went through and took Walkmans (the Mp3 of the 80's) and used them for after hours/offduty time to relax and escape the noise of dorm living. For those who desire, television would be authorized, but no music? Also, I know the value of packing light...thanks for the advice. Bare minimums at first and then as the weeks go by I will acquire the rest slowly. There is no mention of pens pencils paper etc...Curious?! Any words? Do the "court shoes" need to be brand new (i.e. never touched dirt)?



Nellie, Did you receive instructions to go to the Prudential Overall Supply or was that something you did on your own just to make sure you had the right stuff? I think I am behind the power curve as far as having time after the official notice. I am operating on advice rather than "notification" at this point. My contact (final interview / investigator) emphasized that there is a push to get 90 in to the November class and there was only about 35-ish at the time...so there was going to be MANY last minute notifications as they scramble to get bodies into slots and not waste opportunities and resources. My psych-eval is next Friday and I expect a call on Wednesday for the "official" notification. This is probably where they say something like...go to the supply house and get sized so we can have uniforms...?! DOH!

[CTC III-05]

MP3 player and a Television!? Stand by if you bring either of those two things. Also, your court shoes should be white and also be new. You might take a couple of pens and pencils, but the rest is either provided or you can purchase it there. Congrats on getting in.

[Your Mentor]

No television, no MP3 player, no computer (keep it all in the trunk of your car for the weekends). You can go online at the Starbucks off Truxel on the weekends. And DON'T start asking for the rational behind ANY of the rules. Just do what you're told or you'll make it harder on you and your classmates. It'll all come together after you graduate and get on the road. All those things you'll find to complain about will make sense later. For example; we don't have AM/FM radios in our patrol cars and you can't wear MP3 ear pieces while you're working.

[ResQ]

NO NO NO :smile: I am not bringing a television...there is some verbage in one of the pamphlets/hand-outs that says after duty hours cadets may exercise, study, watch televsion, etc, etc...it was comical to think that there would be a bunch of cadets just sitting around watching television...instead of fixing uniforms, memorizing, poliching boots, cleaning weapons, etc. So dont mis-take my question and think I will be "that-guy" I have seen too many of "those-guys" and know better

[SB 405]

After looking at dw's link I now must ask the following....What's the wash out rate during training?

[Fable]

It varies between classes. CTC II-05 is still in the mid 70's I believe (started with 90) while CTC III-05 is currently at 71, (Also started at 90) and hasn't reached the halfway point.

[dw]

The classes lately have been starting with 90 cadets and graduating in the low to mid 60s.

The Academy is an ever-changing environment. Maybe years ago, CD players and the like were allowed -- now they're not. (When I went through, we could use cell phones any time in the evening. Now, such use is restricted.) Audio devices (other than a clock radio) are definitely out per the current SOP.

There are televisions in the dayrooms, although I can't recall ever having time to make use of them. Even when were permitted into the rec room just prior to graduation, I don't think I ever used it.

[SB 405]

This talk about TV reminds me of my brother- in- law who is a Captain with the Los Angeles County Fire Department and tells me in his department new "Boots" fresh out of the tower are not even allowed to watch TV in the station during down time. They can be only one of two places...1. Hittin' the books..or...2.Cleaning something.

[Nellie]

Nellie, Did you receive instructions to go to the Prudential Overall Supply or was that something you did on your own just to make sure you had the right stuff?

I received a document within my hiring packet (after the offer) which included a sheet to fill out with clothing measurements. After it is filled out, you have to fax it in. The person I spoke with said I can either have someone do it, do it myself (not recommended), or go to Prudential Overall Supply to get measured.

[ResQ]

OKOK...Old heads, you win. This isn't my first rodeo. :smile: I get it. I am not a generation X'er. I expect (yes that is right, I EXPECT) to work hard and pay my dues just like every other "wanna-be" So don't mistake my questions as looking for reasons to get out of responsibilities because I am "accustomed" to some sort of lifestyle. I also am not "that guy" who has to ask WHY anytime something comes down as far as policy or SOP goes...but I figured since we are in the forum I could get away with a freindly rationale question. I know when it is time to 'shut up and color' but didn't realize this was also the place to do just that. I do appreciate the advice from Mentor stating that as a cadet we should never question the process or the authority or reasons for whatever we end up doing. I have been on both sides of this equation, an instructor and a student and recognize the absolute necessity for compliance so the mission can be accomplished.

Sounds like a wild ride!! Can't wait to see you other newbies there...

[dw]

No worries ResQ, I think most of us know where you're coming from. I would have enjoyed a CD player so I could put on headphones while studying and pretend I wasn't in that place. It's definitely a different experience.

Let me elaborate on Mentor's point. When I went through, I had a college background; I've always been logical and analytical. One of the toughest things for me was (and still can be) is not questioning "why?" Not out-loud, but in my head. If you try and understand the logic behind anything at the Academy (and sometimes in the Department), you'll drive yourself nuts -- because often there is no logic. Every day I'd think, "Why are we doing this? It would be so much more efficient if we did X." Or, "This method of learning clearly isn't working for Joe Bob, why don't they __________?" As you probably know, "it is because it is, and that's the way it has always been." And again, as you probably know, keep your mouth shut. (Especially about flying. If you think this forum is intolerant, wait until you get to the field. I have no problem with someone coming on with the intent to fly -- hell, we recruit people just for that reason -- but some guys feel if you don't plan on working the road for 30 years, you should go home.)

[SB 405]

What's the starting pay for someone just out of the Academy?

[dw]

In the Academy, I believe you are paid about $3,400/mo gross. (Someone just out may have a better idea.)

Here is the salary information from the web site, it lists the top step officer pay (after five years of service). http://www.chp.ca.gov/recruiting/html/osalary.html The potential top step pay of $82,000 is very realistic -- you can make more if you are willing to work voluntary overtime.

You can expect a base pay of about $50,000 your first year. Once you factor in paid lunch, mandatory overtime, etc... You're looking at about $60,000 without working voluntary overtime. Maybe a little more if you have a degree, a few pennies more if you work swings or graveyards.

It is important to consider that, looking at my last pay statement, the Department pays for $24,738 in retirement benefits each year. Additionally, I only pay $28.22/mo for individual Blue Cross health benefits, and our Association dues are only $35.00/mo. In addition to the almost nine weeks a year of annual leave I get, we have it pretty good. Depends, of course, on where you reside. If you live in Fresno, you have it better than us in metropolitan areas (cost of living).

[ResQ]

DW...I hear you. Lound and Clear. There is a very fine line with alot of this stuff. But it is what it is, and for the most part it has to be.

I am not in this only to fly. Of course I want to...and I wouldn't turn down any flight job (observer, fixed-wing or helo)...but I am here to serve first and foremost. I have always striven to help people and that was the big deciding factor in choosing CHP over many other state and federal agencies.

Plus, for something I want to do anyway..the bene's ain't bad!!

[HwyChaser]

Since it was brought up??..they do have televisions in the day rooms (laundry rooms), but I don?t ever recall being given permission to use them. Actually, I don?t think I ever even seen them on. That academy pamphlet is the same one they have been using for over 6 years now. I remember reading it and thinking ?Oh cool, I can watch some TV and relax in the evening.? It never happened. Even if you were allowed to watch TV you really wouldn?t have enough time.

[Tom]

Well put as usual Kelly,

I write all my reports and my tickets in pencil. When we were doing the "joint" enforcememt in the Castro Valley area I got some grief for it.

Excellent point regarding the issues in the "classroom." We were punished severely for some classroom antics that were passed onto the staff office and, therefore, the PT staff.

Certainly my advice would be, "hey its only 6 months in a 30 year career, just go with it."

Tom

[SB 405]

Gezzz...This Academy talk is starting to freak even me out a little,and I'm not even going.

[dw]

I write all tickets in pencil because of Your Mentor. Just about every officer who has noticed the habit has commented (many think it is against policy). Probably one out of five violators ask about signing in pencil when I hand them my pinch book. I've tried pen, but keep going back to pencil. It writes SO much better on the carbonless paper. I also take a few extra minutes writing my tickets to make them legible. When working the front desk, I got tired taking calls from people who can't read the court address, phone number, or violation.

[ResQ]

thanks Mentor... it is such a great thing you guys are doing by hosting and monitoring this site. I hope I can speak for those of us who don't have the CHP experience when I say thank you for sharing your experiences and techniques. I am sure little things like that will go a long way.

So what happens to the second page/copy when you erase?

[Your Mentor]

YOU'RE the reason we're here ResQ. I can tell you that all of the in-service and retired members of this forum, whether they realize it or not, are teachers. That's why we're here.

I actually began using pencil right out of the chute. I started in a very senior office; mostly 6XXX's to 3XXX's. One was even present when at the Charles Manson arrest in Death Valley. A couple of 10XXX's and 11XXX's. All my granddads, the old guys, shared a lot of old school stuff with me and the pencil was one I've carried since. All of our reports were done in pencil but I've discovered over the years that many officers didn't know you could write tickets in pencil; as dw and Tom pointed out. It's one of my old school indulgences. As for erasing on tickets; it doesn't work. You pretty much have to line things out as though it were pen so the violator's copy matches the pink (per the law). Of course you can erase on so many other documents. The pencil makes better sense on tickets for environmental reasons as well as the carbon issue dw pointed out. It looks better and is easier to read on the last copy. But tickets are the one document we all write outdoors.

[retchp]

:biggrin: Also...we (some of us) were called "hot pencils"..not "hot pens". When Your Mentor writes of 125 degree days and 12 degree days he isn't kidding. I can relate to both of those. The coldest I have ever been on the job was in the Mojave Desert in mid winter with the wind blowing. Your pen will indeed freeze and your mustache will have snot cicles in it before you can complete a cite and get back in the car. Then the snot melts in the hot car interior and runs down your chin....trust me it happens.

[bovsky]

Want to thank everyone for all the insight into the Academy. I've been fortunate enough to be accepted into the Nov. class and looking foward to it. Quick question -

Can anyone recommend a good place to pick up the Black Cadet shoes in SF Bay Area?

[Tom]

Antonios, Summit, Butlers...they all have them...hi-polish black leather boots.

[Nellie]

I just bought a new pair of jump boots from an army surplus store in Moss Landing. I hope they are acceptable.

[16528]

I just bought a new pair of jump boots from an army surplus store in Moss Landing. I hope they are acceptable.

Get some Rockys, Danners or Thorogoods; you might regret the jump boots. Think COMFORT!!!!

[dw]

Danner, Rocky, and Thorogoods are popular. Just be sure you get all leather (sometimes can be difficult to find). I love my Danners, but they can be difficult to polish. Be sure to get a good base-coat of polish on whatever you get.

[Tom]

If you talk reeeeeeeal nice to me, I will give you my ultimate shine secret. But you gotta' talk nice. Don't get Danners for shine but I have a pair since 96 and I still use them now.

Tom

[Darth Choke]

I should copy and paste the pages and pages of advice I gave on chp.net about getting ready for the academy.

BUY THOROGOODS!!! They come out of the box shined and easiest to keep shined.

Abolutely buy better insoles - SOF blue are very good

BUY DANNERS for after the academy ("the road"). They are the most comfortable.

BUY a cheap (I bought Sketchers) pair of black dress shoes for range/EVOC so you don't scuff up your Thorogoods.

[Nellie]

The boots I got are Corcorans. Will I have trouble with them at the academy?

[ResQ]

Nellie, I had a pair of the boots you just bought. They have a hard toe and heel and polish up nicely...but they are a little less than comfortable when you have to stand for long periods. (Not like anything isn't) I stood in mine for 12 hours a day working security for the military way back when...
I lived, but I would have loved some really comfy boots. I think you will do fine with them for 6 months.

[Nellie]

These are the ones I got:

http://www.coveshoe.com/ItemDisplay.asp?Style=1500&CategoryID=28

http://apps.hhbrown.com/HHBImages/WEB/140%20pxl/Cove/1500.jpg

[carcop]

CHOKE IS RIGHT ON! At the academy, day to day basis, you want easy shine and good comfort. Thorogoods are just about the easiest to shine and good on comfort. They can be found and just about any uniform shop. Once you get out of Aademy you can get the Danners and such. I own many boots. Hi-techs, Danners, Thorogoods, Rocky's..... I've got about 7 sets. (Don't ask) Danners are good on comfort, hard on shine. You don't want that at the academy. Make your life easier if you can.

As for things to take, let me just say this. DO NOT TAKE EVERYTHING WITH YOU WHEN YOU REPORT IN. PACK LIGHT!!!! Pack the essential things that you will NEED. You may be allowed to go to your car at some point in the week. You may not, but you will be allowed to get things on the weekend. Don't be the guy that halls everything up in two suitcases just cause he's not sure what he will need. Think of what you will wear during the week and pack accordingly. After the first week you'll know what else you can or cannot have.

[bovsky]

Thank you all for the feed back on the boots. Very much appreciated.

[highway sentinel]

so if there are on average about mid 60s left of the original 90 that started, that would make the dropout rate about 28% or so. what would you experienced guys, and guys that have worked at the academy, say are the main reasons the cadets suspend their academy training?

[Hammer]

I have a question about socks. Are there socks that don't fall down and bunch up when wearing boots? Or is there something to buy that helps keep regular socks from falling down? Thanks

[carcop]

Don't worry about "boot socks" vs. regular socks, white/black/blue or purple (though I would not advise purple) . Just get some comfortable crew socks and that's all you need. Don't get the real high ones unless those are the ones you prefer. If your using "shirt stays" (highly advised) they will keep your socks up.

Academy drop rate is obviously not a constant. It is generally around 20% or so. Some classes get slaughtered and some virtually unscaved. But you can count on at least a few, my class started at 165 and ended at 154. Classes now are at 90 but will soon change to a larger #. The biggest two "killers" are injuries and failing academics. There is always: personal issues, driving, rule violations, shooting, and on and on, but those #'s are usually smaller.

[Hammer]

Thanks for the info about the socks.

[Your Mentor]

Just like carcop, I own several pairs of boots now. All the brands described. The main boot used to be Justin cowboy boots but that tradition has died a slow, tragic death. I too have a pair of Danners I use for general duty but in recent years I've been wearing Chippewa's. I think they're the best built boots I've ever owned. The soles last longer than Danners. I've had to have my Danners resoled several times now (in fact they're presently sitting in a box beside the front door waiting to be shipped to Danner again). Anyway, the Chippewas come highly polished out of the box and they spit-shine better than any of the other brands. The only problem is they're the most expensive duty boot out there; about $195. I know a couple of staff officers who wore them. I know a couple of road officers who also wear Chippewa logging boots, or White logging boots. The soles are so tall, however, that I can't imagine driving in them.

Oh, does anyone remember the royal blue socks? They're still approved for wear. I'm not kidding, royal blue. I knew guys who would wear them with low-quarters. As for the white athletic socks, be careful. If you get a staff officer who bothers to check when you're in uniform, you could get gigged. Of course, in spite of policy, we all wear white athletic socks with tall boots on the road. If they check, however, they have to be black.

As conveyed in several posts, the Academy drop-out rate varies from class to class. Believe it or not, the attrition rate was a CMP (active duty guys will know what this is, future-cadets can disregard since the CMP no longer exists) goal at the Academy. You know how management is about numbers. So they strived to keep it under 12%. Making it a CMP goal, in my opinion, was a mistake. Some classes would be under the mark but more often than not they'd go over. You can't predict an attrition rate when you don't know, beyond the background, who you're dealing with. Remember that when you show up you only look good on paper. It's up to you to prove you are who you say you are (metaphorically speaking).

[Hammer]

Your Mentor,
Can you tell me the boot style #or give a description of the Chippewa boots that you wear.
Thanks

[Your Mentor]

Style 27422 8". They come with lace-in zippers. They're actually listed in the uniform manual for flight crew personnel. Only a few uniform shops sell them because they're pricey. I haven't seen them at Butler's but Saba's carries them. The internet, of course, is the best place to buy them if you know what size you wear.

[Tom]

Hey, soles are just a function of the one's you put on after the initial wear out. I've only re-soled mine twice. Haven't seen the Chippewa's but they sound nice.

Tom

[Mac]

Chippewas are nice boots, but they're heavy and clunky. I used to wear them, and had a pair of Danners also - but switched to the Rockys, which are lighter, breathe better, and have a sole more like an athletic shoe. They don't take a hard shine like the Chippewas or Thorogoods, but they're much more comfortable for daily wear. I keep a separate pair of boots that are only worn for Cat 10 inspections, which are always spit-shined and ready.

As far as drop rate, my class was right at 33% - we started with 150 and graduated 100....but that was a few *ahem* years ago. Our biggest killers were academics (report writing got a lot of 'em), and EVOC.