Immunity

[jaybb]

A good friend of mine is a FHP officer in a fairly affluent area of South Florida. On two occasions, he's stopped possible DUI suspects, but was forced to let them go, as one of them had full Diplomatic Immunity and the other had Congressional Immunity, as congress was in session. Have you all ever dealt with situations like that? If so, how does the CHP handle someone who is clearly breaking the law but can not be arrested or detained.

[Tiredmotor]

I have and it sucks......the ONE time it happened to me I deferred to a Sergeant. (Always a wise thing) The guy went to jail but was not prosecuted. It was for a DUI (Misdemeanor) a big difference between that and a felony...at least as I understand it.

[jaybb]

Yeah, that's what I've heard also, but also it depends on the type of immunity they have. Some forms of diplomatic immunity even apply to felonies.

[Chippysgt]

One thing that is for sure is that the violation will not continue. Usually the person with diplomatic or congressional immunity is smart enough to know that they are in trouble and getting a break and they will not give the officer a ration. The routine is to get them off the road and to a place of safety. There are also things that can be done by our Department of even the US State Department if it is an aggravated issue. Complaints can be made to the embassy or in the case of members of congress, we have people who are able to contact the member or top staff to discuss why this is inappropriate and how embarrassing it can be.

The whole thing has never felt good to me but I balanced it in the big picture and there were always plenty of tickets to write and drunks to throw in jail. When it came to state legislators going to and from Sacramento when in session, I always tried to remember they vote for or against budgets for my department and that made it a little easier to swallow.

[Mac]

......the ONE time it happened to me I deferred to a Sergeant. (Always a wise thing)...
Absolutely a wise thing to do! The 'cheater guide' has a good checklist-thing for Diplomatic Immunity cases, as well as contact numbers. It's not always an easy thing to sort out, as there are varying levels of diplomatic personnel with different degrees of immunity. Some go to jail, some are completely and totally immune, and many fall somewhere between depending on the circumstances.....but that's definitely one where you want the 'stripes' out there before you take action.

I agree with Chippysgt that the whole thing has never felt good to me either - but all we can do is work within the framework we're given, like it or not. Those laws/policies are made way, way, WAY above our pay grade!

[G-Man]

I remember this being a topic of dscussion while at the academy... if i remember correctly, you should take them forthwith because they are presenting a danger to other people and the violation may not continue. once at the jail you tell them of the immunity and they hold them and deal with it (ie. calling their country and getting them kicked out of ours) if you take them to a safe place, their is no guarentee they will not continue the act. Drunk driving is illegal in most countries, so they are still accountable back at home.

someone tell me if i am totally out of left field on this one, as i have not dealt with it.

[Mac]

...someone tell me if i am totally out of left field on this one, as i have not dealt with it.
You're totally out in left field on this one. At the highest levels of Diplomatic/Consular Immunity, you basically can't do anything to them, and doing so will get you in very deep doo-doo. These aren't the kind of situations you can just "play it by ear" and hope for the best....take it step by step, make the notifications, make the phone calls, and follow the protocols. Remember, this isn't just a thing where you're dealing with Departmental policy - you're dealing with the Feds (U.S. Department of State), and these incidents can create international waves. Whether we agree with it or not, screwing up one of these contacts could potentially have some pretty heavy repercussions.

Check out the link here to get an idea of what you can and can't do to who: http://www.state.gov/m/ds/immunities/c9127.htm If you wing it and take a "Diplomatic Agent" forthwith when he's not subject to arrest, detention or prosecution in this country, you can bet that your ass will be handed to you in a most un-diplomatic manner in the very near future afterwards.

[Your Mentor]

Don't forget the extensive section on diplomatic immunity in our manual. It's grown over the years. There are varying degrees of immunity. However, understand that a traffic citation is not considered an arrest by DOS. All foreign diplomats undergo an indoctrination upon taking a post in the US and DOS tells them they are required to sign traffic cites and handle them. However . . . <sigh> . . . if they refuse to sign you now have a misdemeanor for which you can do nothing other than file a complaint (if the person has the proper level of immunity). Let the DA handle it from there. The DA will not file charges against the diplomat but there is a complaint process through the AG's office to DOS. Our policy is interesting reading (if you can believe that) and mostly taken from the DOS rules. Just don't think for a second you can't do anything. You may not be able to arrest (depending on their level of immunity) but you can file a complaint. I stopped multiple diplomats while working in DV and every time I mentioned the DOS rule regarding traffic cites they quickly signed (which told me that HAD been briefed). I never had to file a complaint and dealt with every level of immunity as well as some consular employees who to were quick to point it out but in actuality, had no immunity (cooks, adminstrative, and maintainence employees don't enjoy much immunity at all). Also, it's important to look at any consular identification closely. Only consular officers (ambassadors, their subordinate officers and their families get full immunity).

[PeckerHead]

Well said Mr. Mentor. The bottom line is they shouldn't have immunity. They are guests in our country and should be on their BEST behavior! I sure liked that scene in Lethal Weapon! Hey Mr. Mentor, remember all the fun we used to have "hookin n bookin?" By the way, where's my potato digger?

[Your Mentor]

Oh man o' man. Hey PH. Every time I've posted a note (five times now) in the PO and the grocery store, they've vanished. Have you looked on the internet yet? Interesting screen name partner.

[PeckerHead]

OK. Well I'm still looking for one. Kinda fits me doesn't it? I was just thinking about all the cool pro CHP actors we met on our details. Those were good, good times.

[Your Mentor]

No kidding. I haven't had that kind of overtime in years. Not even during the snow season. You know what I really miss? Weighing 160 pounds and a 32" waist. Sorry folks, just reminiscing with an old graveyard partner. Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread.

[Mac]

Don't forget the extensive section on diplomatic immunity in our manual. It's grown over the years. There are varying degrees of immunity. However, understand that a traffic citation is not considered an arrest by DOS. All foreign diplomats undergo an indoctrination upon taking a post in the US and DOS tells them they are required to sign traffic cites and handle them...
True enough - in the table I linked to, it explicitly shows that EVERY one of them is subject to being cited....not that anything will probably be done with it afterwards, but you can definitely cite them. I was referring more toward the original question where you run across one that's deuce or has committed some form of crime beyond a mere citable offense - that's where you have to tread carefully and do your homework before you slap cuffs on them and call for a tow.

[redhead]

Mac, Thank you for posting that link to the DOS. Very interesting reading.

Along the same lines, Indian reservations. What is the law of the land out there? My family is from Ok and my Aunt would always say, never get in an accident with anyone from the reservation since they don't have to follow the same rules we do. Is that true as well out here in the Golden State?

[Mac]

Along the same lines, Indian reservations. What is the law of the land out there? .....
It depends on what type of jurisdiction the reservation operates under. In some cases, CA peace officers have full authority and full responsibility for all law enforcement on the rez; in some cases it's concurrent with the tribal police, and in some cases we have no jurisdiction (although I think most or all of those have fallen by the wayside now.)

Do a Google search for "concurrent jurisdiction" and "reservation" - if you weed through the links, you'll find some interesting reading that kind of explains it. It can be a rather complex issue.

[not5150]

"Along the same lines, Indian reservations. What is the law of the land out there? My family is from Ok and my Aunt would always say, never get in an accident with anyone from the reservation since they don't have to follow the same rules we do. Is that true as well out here in the Golden State?"

I'll answer this since I used to work on the San Manuel Indian Reservation in Highland, CA.

Off and on the reservation the Indians are pretty much like everyone else. You follow the same procedure if you get into an accident with them (license, reg, insurance, etc).

They don't have any immunity, except for some very specific stuff on the reservation.

CA law enforcement have full power on the reservations and I think that was agreed to when the gambling compacts were signed. Some of the reservation indians believe there is a magic force field that protects them from arrest. There have been several instances where they have led high speed pursuits into the reservation and are shocked when San Bernardino deputies chase them across the reservation line and hand-cuff them.

Some reservations have full-blown police (Bureau of Indian Affairs), while others are sorta in a murky grey area. When I was hired at San Manuel, you had to be an academy graduate, reserve, or retired. We had full duty gear including baton, gun, pepper spray. Our cars were Crown Vics, Broncos and Jeeps with exempt plates and red/blues (visor light, not roof mounted).

Indian reservations are a whole different world.. and I could talk forever about them.