GGD AirOps

[redhead]

Well, As I was just sitting here watching the normal 11 o'cloc "News"....they ran a bit about how the South Bay (San Jose) area just lost their CHP Helio. http://www.clear-prop.org/vertical-challenge2004/IMG_0024.JPG


Looks like GGD Chief decided to send the south bay air ops unit back up to Napa, but promises to keep the Helio in the south bay area as needed. Not sure what this all means, as I am not sure how much SJ and the RWC/Hayward office uses the helio, but just found it to be an intresting topic for the 11 o'clock news.


Red~

[4CHP]

Thanks for the pic...added to screen saver! :lol:

[gofly]

Great Pic of the Helicopter.

Can someone (or everyone) explain how the helicopters are utilzed and deployed for the CHP?

From what I've seen so far they have mostly A-stars in the department, mostly based in northern cal, san fran (but maybe not according to the previous post) and central valley. I believe that they have paramedics as the observers. So what is their jurisdiction and primary response duty, for both law enforcement and medical response? Do they use them for traffic duties as well, and if so how?

I know the CHP has a Jet Ranger based at Fullerton airport in OC and that (I've been told) is the only aircraft in the LA/OC area and is just used for traffic duties like chases. Is this true? Are there any helicopters based in San Diego?

Where are all the fixed wings located and what other duties do they have besides speed enforcement?

And anyone with more information about the aviation division that wants to talk more, let me know.

Thanks. Good luck. Be safe.

[dw]

First, let me say that I'm not an airops guy, so if anything I write is inaccurate, please correct me.

I don't have exact numbers in front of me, but the Department has at least one A-Star for each of the eight Field Divisions. I believe there is one assigned to the Capitol as well. (There is also at least one fixed wing aircraft, Cessna 206 I believe, for each Division). To my knowledge, all the Jet Rangers were replaced with A-Star's a few years ago. The fixed wing and rotors are usually based out of the same airport, again, usually one each per Field Division. I couldn't tell you where the Border Division (San Diego region) aircraft are located, but there is definitely coverage there.

All of our helicopters should be advanced life support (ALS) equipped now. The last basic life support (BLS) airship we had was out of Moffett, which is no more. As such, we're always available for medical calls. In metropolitan areas with competing private medivac services, we only do a handful of "medicals" each month. Many of those result from search and rescue (SAR) operations. I would imagine rural areas see more medical calls.

The primary purpose, being a law enforcement agency, is law enforcement and related duties. We use our aircraft (rotor and fixed wing) to patrol urban and remote areas, state facilities and infrastructure (such as the California Aqueduct), and assist allied agencies. They're available for proactive enforcement (speed, reckless driving, etc...), to respond to specific calls, assist with collision investigation (aerial photos), and more.

Some officers get frustrated that (just like the public feels about cops) they're never there when you need them, and always seem to be around when you don't. If you had to patrol several hundred square miles, land for fuel a couple times during a shift, and overhaul your vehicle at specified intervals, the chances of you being overhead when a pursuit comes out would be minimal.

[Tom]

Boy, someone is fishing for an airops job. Forget it the FUTURE is motors.

[gofly]

dw, thanks for the information so far (in this and all the other topics as well.) The little I do know about the airops is that the Southern Division does not have any aircraft (fixed wing or rotorcraft) based within its boundries. And that (as of 2 months ago) the Jet Ranger was still based in Fullerton but no fixed wing is based there. Just knowing a little about the emergency services in LA and Orange Counties I understand that medical services are provided by so many other different agencies that it would really be unnecessary for CHP to have paramedics in helicopters. And besides, the fire department glory boys and the "elite" LACo Sheriff Search and Rescue wouldn't want to give up any publicity to the CHP, I'm sure. For many years Orange County even had a law that ALL paramedics needed to be employed by the fire department, although I'm not sure if that is still the case or not today.

tom, i realize that CHP officers are the coolest people in the state (and that motor officers are the coolest of the bunch) but the airplanes and the helicopters are one of the big draws to the department for me. Over the past few years, I've run into several pilots for the CHP and they keep saying how much they love thier jobs. (I also realize almost EVERY CHP officer will proudly state how much they love thier jobs, but pilots just have a certain bond.) And the pilots would keep saying how they need more pilots in the department. I've wanted to be a Highway Patrol officer since I was a little kid but sometimes life takes you other places. Now I think I have assets that are valuable to the department and I would be able to contribute to the safety and security of the state. I'm just not sure that I'll want to give up the patrol car. That seems like a blast to me as well. (Maybe they can have me fly half the week and drive patrol the other. Best of both worlds.)

In case anyone is concerned, I am just focused now on the hiring process, then it will be the academy, then break in period, then we'll see what happens after that. But one of the main reasons to choose a department (or company or whatever) is the future possibilities. I think I have many skills and assets that could benefit the state and the CHP. Just like most of the other people on the board and in the process. We need to think about the future to help us through the long, stressful application process. The process that seems, sometime, to never have an ending.

[Tom]

Gofly my comment was based towards DW. Didn't mean to pee in your wheaties. Go for it!

[dw]

Just a wannabe. I'd have to get off my butt, drop $80k, and burn all my vacation time before even thinking about flying for the Department.

You got me Tom, a three million dollar jet powered aircraft with more torque than every motor in the State combined (possibly an exaggeration), or a $15k bike that can't idle when cold. Motors are 'da bomb! :cool: ;)

[Tom]

How about this.......an Officer that actually does something or two Officers that do very little. Hey it's just my opinion but if I was in charge.... Airops would be done. But I'm not in charge so there you go.

Tom

[16528]

How about this.......an Officer that actually does something or two Officers that do very little. Hey it's just my opinion but if I was in charge.... Airops would be done. But I'm not in charge so there you go.

Tom

Not any of the motors that I know; Well maybe lomotor and thats it!!!!!


Besides, 9 Bay Area Counties is a lot of turf to cover in a shift..

but if I was in charge.... Airops would be done.

Until you need them..

[gofly]

dw, if you really want to become a pilot (wether just for fun or to fly for the CHP) you should definitely do it. I've been a flight instructor for several years and I've taught a few law enforcement guys and gotten them their private pilot certificates. It is not that much time and flight instructors are more than willing to work around your schedule. You can do it in as little as 4 months or take 6 months or a year (or longer) it just depends on how much time you want to put into it. And I don't know where the $80K figure came from, but the private pilot should only cost between $6-10K total. And that depends on you and how much time you want to put into it as well. These are fixed wing prices, I'm not sure about rotor but it will be a little more.

I'm not 100% sure on this either, but I think to fly for the CHP you only need a private pilot certificate. That will get you into the air ops. Then you will probably want to get an instrument rating (which is a great thing for every pilot to obtain for safety and ability to fly more often.) But, like I said, I'm not sure about what specifically the department wants, I'm only going by what some of the officers I've met have told me. But once you are a pilot, you are always a pilot. It's fun and exciting and a great way to explore and impress your friends.

If you, or anyone, has questions about becoming a pilot or flight training or what to ask when you go to check out a flight instructor or school, let me know. I'll try to help as much as I can.

tom, my wheaties are fine. anytime you want to go fly, let me know. i'll see if i can show you how an airplane can be almost as fun as a motorcycle.


Thanks. Good Luck. Be Safe.

[Your Mentor]

Everyone's opinion is worthy. It initiates thought and offer's insight into various perspectives. This forum wouldn't exist if it wasn't all about respecting opinions. We all like different aspects of this job and without all those interests we'd all be fighting to do one thing because we need all those other assets. And someone would be forced to work a job he or she wouldn't want to work if not for the diverse interests here. I love the road, I love resident post work (there are only 125 RP positions), I love driving a sedan, and I love wearing tans. But if you asked me what my favorite thing to do on this department, I'd say teaching. I never enjoyed myself more than when I was teaching at the Academy. That's my niche. Unfortunately, unlike Division jobs, you can't teach for any length of time. I'd teach the rest of my career if it were possible. It's not so I work the road; my second favorite job.

I drove a 1978 Kawasaki Z 1-R (suped up KZ 1000) my junior and senior year in high school, yet I've never had the desire to be a motor officer. I love steak and lobster but don't ask me to eat spinach or caviar. Life is all about diversity. We need you on a motor Tom; you can get through congested freeways to access accident scenes when a sedan can't. And you need us to transport your in custodies. We need instructors who care about the education of cadets so they go into the field prepared to do the job. We need someone in Research and Planning to manage the radars we have in our cars and on our motorcycles. We also need ex-state police guys walking the halls of the capital so you and I won't have to.

I knew all of the Dagget air crews as well as my own squad when I worked in Death Valley. They landed at so many of my accident scenes I could tell who was in the air by his or her voice. They checked parts of my beat when I was on the opposite end (5,000 square miles) and were responsible for meeting the golden hour with patients who wouldn't have made it from such a remote area. And, we recruit many pilots with the sole purpose of putting them in a plane or helicopter. Likewise, many pilots apply just to get a full time flying job with benefits. My only gripe, and it's a minor one, is the pay differential. The pilot makes 15% more with the sole purpose of getting a paramedic to the scene. The paramedic is the one who roles up his or her sleeves and gets dirty, does all the paper work, handles the radio, etc. and they only get a 5% pay raise. That's not right but air ops has historically been politically weighted toward the pilots.

BTW, the fixed wing observer-to-pilot program has been on and off for several years. I know a couple of pilots who started out as observers and whose training was payed for by the dept. I can't imagine not wanting to take that opportunity if I was an observer.

Posted in Chippies only but pertinent to this thread, I think. Remember, we're a team guys.

[dw]

gofly,

My buddy and I are thinking about getting into a ground school course, but the more I think about it, the more I'm interested in rotors. The CHP requires instrument and commercial ratings to fly -- the $80k figure is what most people say is realistic for those certifications in a helicopter.

[CHPwannaBE]

Gofly, I am also checking out flight schools. I am interested in Embry Riddle. Where did you go? Also how do you become a pilot observer? Do you have to be CHP for that? That sounds like a good deal if they pay for your flight training.

[Tom]

I believe my above post was taaken out of context and for that I apologize. I would never demean the men and women of this department. (OK, maybe jokingly)
My only gripe is the lack of road officers.

Tom

[16528]

I believe my above post was taken out of context and for that I apologize. I would never demean the men and women of this department. (OK, maybe jokingly)
My only gripe is the lack of road officers.

Tom

They always rob from the road where we're needed the most....

Repost from Chippies Only Forum
Tom; I was just giving you a hard time....:lol: Look at the history of this dept., motor training used to be mandatory at the academy; Just another part of OUR roots....

[16528]

I'm not 100% sure on this either, but I think to fly for the CHP you only need a private pilot certificate. That will get you into the air ops. Then you will probably want to get an instrument rating (which is a great thing for every pilot to obtain for safety and ability to fly more often.) But, like I said, I'm not sure about what specifically the department wants, I'm only going by what some of the officers I've met have told me.

The Dept. requires 300 hours of Pilot-in-Command, a Commercial and an Instrument Rating..

I've dropped better than $50k on my Commercial Rotor and still spending so $80k is not unreasonable..

[propeller26]

There are many different opinions regarding the air ops programs, and sometimes those opinions are given from persons who have little or no knowledge about air ops. Many ground officers do not realize how to properly utilize the aerial assets that are available to them. I work in the Central Valley and there are a few officers who understand how to effectively use the fixed wing. For example, officers in the Coalinga Area will ask us to look for an accident at the far end of their beat, which might take them over an hour to get to at 100 mph, but we in the fixed wing can cover that distance in just minutes. Due to the motoring public never knowing where they are at any given time, the location given is usually not anywhere close to what was given to dispatch. If the ground unit is extended, we can land and assist with first aid, or we can simply let the responding unit know that it is only a broken down vehicle.

Additionly, the other post refer to the pay grade differences, but few stop to think about the cost that one occurs while training to meet the minimum pilot requirements. There are very few other postions within the CHP that require you to invest your own money for the training. One helo pilot in my unit spent 30K of his own money just to be considered. The dept. is considering training current observers to become pilots, however, this is not a sure thing. Without this difference in pay, the dept would have a hard time in recruiting qualified pilots. There is also a lot of recurrent training that every pilot needs every quarter, which is a lot more intense than a division or area traing day. As pilots we are responsible for everyone that gets into our aircraft, wether that be my flight officer or the commisioner, and it becomes my responsibility to get them to their destination safely. The flight officer does more visible work, but they can not get that work done without my knowledge, skills and abilities, such as flying an instrument approach with 1/2 mile visibility.

I was a motor before I came to air ops and both jobs have their advantages and disadvantages. In a perfect world I could ride a motor to work and jump into the fixed wing, but I don't see that happening anytime soon!

[ResQ]

My mentor wrote: My only gripe, and it's a minor one, is the pay differential. The pilot makes 15% more with the sole purpose of getting a paramedic to the scene. The paramedic is the one who roles up his or her sleeves and gets dirty, does all the paper work, handles the radio, etc. and they only get a 5% pay raise. That's not right but air ops has historically been politically weighted toward the pilots.

Hey...c'mon. The sole purpose...the SOLE purpose...THE SOLE purpose. To accomplish that the pilot has got to have some serious skill to operate in 3 dimensions. (read friendly, I am only offering perspective) The auto only has 2 dimensions and if something goes wrong you simply pull over...with these pilots who's SOLE job is to deliver paramedics...there is some serious brain power, skill, cunning, much more ego to haul around ;) , and throw in a little luck for good measure and they have to operate with that crazy ol' Up/Down lever which complicates everything!! So (being a personally biased rotorhead and admittidly so) I am for these guys making a few more bucks...they are hauling someones wife, husband, daughter, son, etc around in a crazy machine that doesn't want to be in the air longer than it is forced to and they need to be able to do it in many different weather conditions, read: wind, dust, clouds, etc.

Give em a break...rotory wing guys are people too! :smile:

v/r
your friendly
ResQ-Pilot

[16528]

ResQ-Pilot: being a personally biased rotorhead and admittidly so in a crazy machine that doesn't want to be in the air longer than it is forced to


I'm gonna like this guy!!! :biggrin:


Oh BTW, welcome to the forum..

[Your Mentor]

Understand that OUR paramedics only operate out of helos. They don't work out of patrol cars. And at the end of the day they're the one's wearing someone elses blood on their uniform; not the pilot. Sorry man. I've seen enough of air ops to say the extra pay should go to the one's doing the dirty work and really saving lives. No disrespect, but if it were up to me, the pilots would get a 5% skill pay differential and the paramedics would get the 15%. Again, no disrespect.

[ResQ]

alright alright...Mentor..I concede, I will take only a small raise and let the paramedics have the larger bonus...(as long as I get my bonus) :smile:

[Your Mentor]

Sorry ResQ-Pilot, if that was too harsh sounding. I guess my gripe isn't that the pilots shouldn't get 15%. It's that the paramedics should get a substantial skill differential for what they do. But the current state of affairs is as it is and air ops is a very small community within our department. The paramedic skill pay has been tossed around for ever. I know a bunch of our paramedics and have seen them in action first hand. Ideally, the paramedic would get the same skill pay as the pilot since both of their skills are equally important during a SAR sortie or medivac. Unfortunately, the paramedics don't have the collective muscle to campaign for the increased skill pay. Neither do resident post officers who are contractually exempt from collecting on-call pay and yet are on call the better part of the month.

Oops. I just fell off my soap box. Anyone have a 121 handy?

[Tom]

ResQ, I understand the three dimension thing, however, I think (and history will back me up) riding a motor on this job is much more dangerous.....and we don't get 15%, just 4%.

Tom (I think we should all make 25% more)

[dw]

To add to Mentor's argument, the FO/Medic also operates the CHP radios, allied radios, assists with navigation, operates the FLIR, and I'm sure a whole lot more. I've heard several pilots say, "He's the one who does the work," referring to the FO.

And to add to ReqQ's point, the FO may have an equally important skill-set, however obtaining the necessary certification cost far less than the pilot has invested -- especially with a helicopter. They may have invested money out of their own pocket, or years of their life in the service. One way or another, they paid. I can go to the local community college a few nights a week and become a medic.

[ResQ]

"Your Moderator" no offense taken. this is a great discussion. What the TRUE argument from everyone seems to be is that we all want more and the state wants "more for less"...and balancing all of that with our personal lives is what makes the world go 'round.

DW...I would bet that most medics would argue that you could get your paramedic license going to school a couple nights per week. I think I remember 5 days a week for 18 months as the standard for paramedic cert? Those guys have invested, just like anyone else has, in their profession because they had to or needed to or (most) have a deep desire to assist people in their time of need. So this begs the question..where is the "standard" cut off for pay increases? You have young gung-ho guys dedicating themselves to 6 months at the CHP academy then put their lives on the line which nets XX dollars per annum. Then you have doctors who dedicate themselves to 8 years or more of academy/school and they net XX per annum. and then you have... and then...and... So, who makes the decision where the cut off is? If you were commissioner for the day, who qould you give raises to and who would you cut? I have my ideas...

[16528]

however obtaining the necessary certification cost far less than the pilot has invested -- especially with a helicopter. They may have invested money out of their own pocket

Just a little bit but both equally important..

[x MAIT]

When I was in MAIT I thought we should be paid more because we were so special. :lol:

Although I didn't mind being paid more for riding a motor, I know that I worked just as hard when I was in a car, and I never got to drive it home. :biggrin: